Ukrainian її — preferred presentation?

This combination was touched upon in an older thread, but I thought I’d single it out to see if I could get any native opinions.

What preferences do Ukrainians have for the handling of the pronoun її ?

Presumably it is not desirable to have the accents collide, but at what point is a large positive kern too large? How much should they need to clear?



Or conversely, is this combination really an appropriate candidate for ligation (as implied in that other thread)? Wouldn’t that undermine distinction from the common ії sequence? Or is context sufficient for Ukrainians to not be bothered by a ligated її ?

Thank you for any perspective from native readers.

Comments

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 1,854
    I don't know what Ukrainian readers prefer, but I would love to be able to handle this as two normally spaced ı with three dots above.
  • Kent LewKent Lew Posts: 904
    John — That’s what I meant by “candidate for ligation.” Would a two-i/three-dot ligature glyph be an acceptable representation?



    And yes, the same question would then hold true for Apache. (Thanks for pointing it out, Frode.)
  • Mathew Carter related that he was asked about this pair by Users of Verdana, and was told Three dots are not acceptable, a kerning pair for ïï is preferred. 
  • Alexander StetsiukAlexander Stetsiuk Posts: 36
    edited November 2015

    “Her” — [ Її ] is the only word found in an Ukrainian language dictionary with a pair of double letters [ї]

    Presumably it is not desirable to have the accents collide, but at what point is a large positive kern too large? How much should they need to clear?

    Yes, of course.

    Diacritics should not collide and produce illegible shapes. For that reason, careful fitting and kerning is required.

    By David Březina

    http://ilovetypography.com/2009/01/24/on-diacritics

    A solution is to move the dots closer to each other. And increase the kerning between two characters.

    Or conversely, is this combination really an appropriate candidate for ligation (as implied in that other thread)? Wouldn’t that undermine distinction from the common ії sequence? Or is context sufficient for Ukrainians to not be bothered by a ligated її ?

    I do not know. I would do it in some typefaces (condensed, black, display, posters, logo). It's like  (and as shown in the picture below): «Unusual, strongly authorial approach to the accents...» (© Filip Blažek)


    However, I like this version.

    This is a general problem of diacritic design.

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 1,854
    and was told Three dots are not acceptable, a kerning pair for ïï is preferred. 

    Bloody readers.
  • Kent LewKent Lew Posts: 904
    This is a general problem of diacritic design.
    Indeed. Which is why I am asking for input from native readers. Thanks for your contribution, Alexander.
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