AlphabetMagic. My first AI experiment

PabloImpallari

I made my first AI experiment.

I wanted to explore if it was possible to create new alphabets by providing only the Art Direction, while leaving the Execution to the computer.

In this particular experiment, my goal was to generate cool, exciting and original display alphabets, that's why you won't see any highly readable but also boring sans of serif typeface for body or paragraphs text usage. In fact, they were intentionally avoided. For example: getting results looking like Arial or Times New Roman would have been seen as epic fails.

Basically, I wanted to test if it was possible to create alphabets that will feel at home if included in the Dan Solo catalogues, so to speak.

I think all of the results I got on this experiment have a high degree of the Wow factor in it!
What do you think?

In total I created 20 alphabets. you can download them all at https://github.com/impallari/AlphabetMagic

A different experiment can be done to produce highly readable sans or serifs too, that's not a problem (in fact its actually easier). Or Formal Scripts or Blackletters, Colorfonts, Non-Latin, or whatever is needed.

Jasper de Waard

I'd be interested to see more 'boring' fonts!

Also, I've been thinking that AI might be relatively good at creating different weights, widths, or optical sizes based on a well-designed base font, but I have no idea how to implement that. 

Nick Cooke

I suppose some of them might be good as a starting point, then refined into something much better. 

PabloImpallari

Jasper de Waard said:

I'd be interested to see more 'boring' fonts!

2 boring ones here (Semiblod weight), 30 more here, to make you bored to sleep

PabloImpallari

Let's try to turn already made fun fonts into boring ones:

Here is Jester:

Make it boring!


Now Speedball:

Make it boring!


Great Victorian:

Make it Boring!


Experiment #4 turned out much better than expected!
What would you suggest for experiment #5?

Jasper de Waard

Matching italics?

PabloImpallari

Jasper de Waard said:

Matching italics?

Experiment 5:
True italics for Helvetica, Din and Noto in the style of Italian Renaissance







How would you guys evaluate this result?

The voices inside my head be like:
- No, they don't match! You didi it all wrong! Stupid!
- But they do match in x-height, width and weight
- Yes, but they look like serif italics
- You asked for true italics, and thats what they are!
- Ha ha ha, you were expecting just slanted ones, right?
- Go fuck yourself! 

Im confused. I can't decide.. Is this result bad, or good?

Ray Larabie

I don't think it worked on the italics. It got the stroke thickness and proportions right, but picked up almost none of the essence of the uprights. Especially with DIN…it retained absolutely none of the industrial look.

I did some experiments with DALL-E 2 in July and I couldn't generate anything useful. Some “mistakes” it made were interesting, like the @ in your examples. But the AI doesn't understand a typeface as a system, so it doesn't follow through with the rest of the characters.

500MB zip of experimental images from summer 2022 Dropbox link

I'm interested if anyone can coax one of these tools into infilling characters successfully. Take an alphabet, remove some letters and see if it can replace them. Once that's working, we can get it to do all kinds of useful tasks. For example, if I have a textured stencil font that I made years ago and the client wants Cyrillic and Greek, there's no way I can recreate the same texture precisely. If an AI could generate those characters in the same style and texture, it would be a practical tool.

PabloImpallari

Ray Larabie said:

I don't think it worked on the italics. It got the stroke thickness and proportions right, but picked up almost none of the essence of the uprights. Especially with DIN…it retained absolutely none of the industrial look.

Thanks Ray!
I agree with you.. it failed. The Din essence was lost

Maybe I was asking too much to the AI, since Din is the epitome of German  Engineering typeface and the Italian Renaissance the epitome of humanistic arts. They are the absolute and complete opposite, hahaha. Its was like asking: "Make me an extra-light heavy typeface". It can't be both at the same time.

I'm guessing the AlphabetMagic decided to lean more on the Renaissance's features, since the /f went below the baseline, the /e eye got smaller and moved up, the /a got that singlar pointed end in the upper-right top of the stem, so typical of Italian calligraphy. The /n got inn strokes and out strokes.

My very first impression made the voices in my head to said that it looked like a Serif Italic becouse of the inn and out strokes. But I was wrong. Now I can safely say that its a true italic sans and it's not a serif, otherwise the first /n feet would have gotten serifs too, but it didn't. The same applies to the /f and /t feet. So, It's still a sans.

When I saw the results the first time, I went into shock.
Now that I'm calm and after a better analysis I can break it down to:
1) It was very successful at matching the weight and proportions
2) It was very successful at applying the Renaissance essence
3) But it failed at retaining the Din essence.

The same would apply for Helvetica. I think it failed on the same terms.

For Noto I really can't decide.
The AI seem to have retained more of the Noto features and less of the Renaissance's features, since the /f still sits on the baseline, the /a got the out-stroke, but it's still a slanted construction. I would not use the AI result as the default italic for Noto, but for sure I can use it as a 2nd italic companion for it (as in the Underware's Auto fashion).
Maybe I will only tweak the inn-strokes, making them horizontal in the x-height instead of at 45 degree angle. But thats a personal preference, I cant sake its an AI mistake, since the angled inn-stroke its indeed a Renaissance feature. So, for those reasons, I cant say it failed. But also, since I wont use it as the default italic, I can't said it was successful.

So for me Noto it's a tie! Let's go to penalties!!!!


Ok... AlphabetMagic wins the penalties!
Since it can be used as a valid 2nd Italic alternativo (as in the Underware's Auto fashion), it's adding value to the Noto family. Now I can safely say that Noto was a success!

PabloImpallari

Ray Larabie said:

I did some experiments with DALL-E 2 in July and I couldn't generate anything useful. Some “mistakes” it made were interesting, like the @ in your examples.

Maybe not useful as fonts, but Wow!! they are really cool as artwork!
I will print and hang in the wall some of them!
Thanks for sharing!!!!! Ray Larabie said:
But the AI doesn't understand a typeface as a system, so it doesn't follow through with the rest of the characters.My AlphabetMagic AI do understand a typeface as a system, as the fundamental basis of its operation!

If you inspect the results for the 1st experiment in more detail, you can see some interesting as-a-system relations, for example:

The very first result produced, looked all drunk at birds eye...
But at close inspection you can see how the /R diagonal relates to the /K, and even to the /X in a FANTASTIC as-a-system relational manner. The /X was super exiting to me! Note how the 3 of the 4 /X diagonals have serifs, while the diagonal that relates to the /R and /K stays in-the-system! Even the /Q tail and the (flipped) /M  /A and /Y stays related!!!

If thats not a system! What's is a system?
This AlphabetMagic AI knows his shit!!!! It's fucking awesome!!!!!

Also note how the /E relates to the /C and /G. How cool is that!!!!

The bowls of /B /P and /R they all relate to each other in his very own wacky way!
Also note how all 3 of them have swash-like joins in the left-top corner.

While some may see this Alphabet an evaluate it as shit, I see it from a different angle and I see it as pure gold.



In this one, look at the stroke ending in /J /3 and /5.
Woooww!!!!! Relations baby!!!! Relations everywhere!!!!

Ray Larabie said:

I'm interested if anyone can coax one of these tools into infilling characters successfully. Take an alphabet, remove some letters and see if it can replace them. Once that's working, we can get it to do all kinds of useful tasks. For example, if I have a textured stencil font that I made years ago and the client wants Cyrillic and Greek, there's no way I can recreate the same texture precisely. If an AI could generate those characters in the same style and texture, it would be a practical tool.

- First I want to do another experiment to fix the Din fiasco! Hahahaha!!
- Language coverage it's not an issue, it just another letter shape just like the numbers punctuations or whatever
- Texture replication would be a cool experiment to do next! Challenge accepted!!

I will need a some time to collect textured fonts to show to AlphabetMagic, since I don't have any textured alphabet. Ray: can you do that for me? The closer they look to the texture you want to recreate, the better

Ray Larabie

Sure thing, I'll send you some of my textured fonts.

Dusan Jelesijevic

Designer's doomsday is coming.

Simon Cozens

What would you suggest for experiment #5? 

Get the AI to write up your methodology into a publishable article? ;-)

PabloImpallari

Simon Cozens said:

What would you suggest for experiment #5? 

Get the AI to write up your methodology into a publishable article? ;-)

What about a live presentation at Atypi Pairs this year? Hahahaha It wont happen.. I hate to speech in public

Jasper de Waard

Of course it's up to you what you want to present, but I think it would be very cool to learn a bit more about how your AI was created and trained.

PabloImpallari

Do you want to open the presents before Santa Claus arrives? Lets have dinner first! 

Help me do more experiments first, so when it launches I can be sure that it will really work as it supposed to. It happened to me before that I released a macro for auto-spacing in fontlab5 and it didn't worked... it was a bit embarrassing. The same for Metapolator... Live and learn...

I don't wanna to present something half-backed that will make you course all over me and my mothers memory! I want to to present something that will be fun and will make you smile

This time I will to do it right

PabloImpallari

PabloImpallari said:

I don't wanna to present something half-backed that will make you course all over me and my mothers memory! I want to to present something that will be fun and will make you smile

To be 100% honest.. what i said above is true, I do wanna to release something that really work.. but it's also sort of a lame excuse to avoid the elefant in the room: The Technical Discussion

You all know me, and you know my history: For 13 years (since 2010) I have been releasing everything as free and open source: My fonts, The sourxce fontlab and Glyphs files, the Cancellaresca Bastarda revival, the Testing Page, the Impallari Formula, my Fontlab and my Glyphs macros... all of it. And I always provide all the techical details about everything.

However, this time I'm acting different.. this time with this particular tool I'm only sharing only the results of the experiments.

And I'm avoiding mentioning any technical details. Not only that I am avoiding them but directly, and to be more explicit: I am hiding them on purpose since day 1.

The more perceptive of you will have noticed that I created this thread in the "typefaces Critiques" section instead of Font Technology, Techniques and Theory, or Type Business.. and choosing the Critiques category instead of the other ones was not a random decision.

In fact the subject of AI applied to fonts has soooo many impliquations and will affect our collective future in so many ways, that encompasses all 4 categories at the same time. 

AlphabetMagic is not the typical plugin that help us to do some specific task and that we integrate it into our workflow. AlphabetMagic will, eventually, not only replace all plugins, but also replace the entire font editor app itself, since in the next 10 years or so, moving nodes around wont be needed any more. Well, maybe not, maybe it will never be replaced, but it will change so much that will be a complete different font editor app.

AlphabetMagic will simply remove the "work"  and let it "flow".
This WILL happen, for sure... If it was not me, someone will eventually do it.

This is exiting, but also scary!

I would like to thanks all our you, for being so polite to me so far.
I have been doing a huge effort to resist the enormous temptation of publishing the source code of AlphabetMagic to the open.
Because I also want to polite with all of you. You are my dear colleagues, and I think I have mever told you how much I love you.. all of you.. and how much admiration I have for you and for your work. Fuck man.. I have to say it: You are my heroes!

Ok.. too much sentimentality for a day!
Lets cut the bullshit and face the elephant directly:

There are sooo many path for the future of AlphabetMagic.
What should I do with it? We need to have this conversation.

The Extra-light option be like: Release it as Open source so everyone can use it
The BlacK option will be: Simply erase it to my computer so no one can use it
And since we are now in the Variable Fonts era.. Lets explore the interpolated option, hahahah... Im having so much fun with this silly analogy as I write LOL!

I'm thinking as I write.. so, dont be scary if this brainstorming include crazy shit!

Option 1) Breaking down Alphabet magic into small separate Glyphs plugins for diferent actions: for example we can create a plugin for "Make it Boring", another plugin for "Matching Italic", etc etc etc... something like 1 separate plugin foe each experiment

Option 2) Sell the code to Google, or Adobe, or MT, or whatever

Option 3) Sell the plugin to Atypi so that only Atypi members can use it, so it stays in the circle of colleagues

Option 4) Keep it for myself and create my very own creativemarket an become rich

Option 5) ... mmm ... this is a good one... I will keep it to myself.

Oka... enough... I will let you do the talking now. Sould we create another thread for the busines implications and keep this one for disssing the experiments only?
(or maybe another category for everything AI related, since it embrace so many topics)

PabloImpallari

Having said that... I will share the non technical part about how AlphabetMagic was created.. its quite funny also... and everything I will write here is the absolute true, as ridiculous as it may sound, its the absolute true.. not a joke.. not an analogy.. no nothing.. just the true. Get ready for it:

If you have visited the AlphabetMagic github page recently, you may have seen that I updated the text and included an introduction and a link to the 2016 Atypi Warsaw conference about AI by the Morisawa guys. If you have not seen that video already, now is the time to watch it.. go there are watch the video first, so you will understad me better.

Go there.. whatch the video.. really.. do it now.

Oka,.,, now that you have seen the video, you will understand me. Le't do it!
for some strange reason the universe put me right there that day, in the auditorium.
Those who knows me in person know that I like to party hard at night and always wake up in the afternoon and basically miss all the presentation and just show up when all the speakers presentations ended and it's beer drinking time. So basically I attend the Atypi conference for the hang out with you, my beloved herores, and watch the presentation later on youtbe once I'm back in argentina. I even miss Behad VF presentation where he talked about the impallari formula. I showed up just the minute Behad finished and the people started leaving the room.. 5 o 6 people come to me and started saing compliments to me, and I had no idea why they were congratulating me, hahah.. I was like: hum?? what are they talking about? It was funny..

Ok, never mind.. the point is that even though I miss most of the presentation, for some reason, that day I showed up early...a rare thing... maybe I was hungry and didnt wanted to miss the free food, or something... 

I rarely read the conference program..  but I did it that day and assisted the AI presentation you just watched on youtube.

The voices in my head be like:
"Wow man!... these [CONTENT EDITED BY MODERATORS] are using deep lerning while I'm moving nodes around with the mouse and keyboard like the fucking Fred Flintstone... WILLLMAAAAAAAAAA!!!!! YABA DABA DOOOOOOO!!!!! 
This japos are so intelligent.. so focused.. and they have all the money.. I will kill to have AI working for me in my typefaces.. but i have no chance.. I'm so Jelouss.. Please god: send me a horse to fuck me in the asss"

That awesome Morisawa guys 17 minutes talk was a braking point for me. It trully affected me deeply inside my brain.

You may have noted that the last 5 years I have released nothing.. not a single font... my website went down...  disappeared from this forum.. etc... 5 years of literally doing nothing at all.. not working.. not nothing...5 years suspended in time.

Because of the Morizawa guys, it became near impossible for me to keep working on fonts again... Every fucking time I'd sit in front of the computer to work fonts, after 5 minutes of movings nodes around with the mouse.. I would get very angry... I would get really mad.. I would stand up, strongly kicked the chair to the other side of the room, and  and started yelling at the computer: "YOU FUCKING COMPUTER GOOD FOR NOTHING... IM SITTING HERE SPENDING MY TIME LIKE A FUCKING NODES MONKEY WHILE THE JAPOS ARE USING AI...WHAT I AM? A FUCKING  [CONTENT EDITED BY MODERATORS]? WHY CANT I USE AI TOO.."

I did some node monkey work for a few more months, since i had Dave waiting for me to deliver... but  I felt so stupid and so humiliated every fucking single time I clicked on each node... at some point I couldn't tolerate it anymore, and so I stopped working for 5 years.

However... for those 5 years.. every single day...  my brain was thinking about how to implement a deep neural network at my service... my mind explored every possibility... explored the challenge from every angle... left, right, up, down.. however I always ended up disappointed... everyday my conclusion was that it was not possible for me... that I was a shitty programmer... that my computer was not powerful enough.. that i in fact a stupid and not clever like the japos... I was torturing myself..  my self esteem was buried 30 feets underground... I went into a deep depression... I was a gost... I started taking a lot, a lot, a lot, really a lot of cocaine... from 5 to 10 grams a day, every day..  then I got iinto the electronic music scene, so I switched from cocaine to 2C-B. It was great for me but my family thought i was crazy.

My dad tried to put me into a mental hospital 6 times, but he couldn't: When I told my big problem to the psychologist it was like this:
"I'm sad because I cant use artificial intelligence to design fonts"..
the lady went like: "Whaat? Whats AI? What are fonts?"... 

Obviously, no medication or any doctor could help me with this problem.
So they let me out of the mental hospital, since the doctors diagnosis was that I das no real problem... They thought I was making a joke... but I was telling them the truth 

Until last December.. World Cup... Messi.. Big exitement!

But we lost to the saudis... our team sucked big time... Where is Messi?...
The world couldn't be worse. Winning the world cup seemed impossible.

So  I made a promise to God:
I will stop using drugs and I will get back to work if Argentina won the WorldCup.

We started winning... MEXICO, POLAND went by... our team started to play somewhat dececent.... and we started to get excited... we started to have faith again... we started to get excited again.

DUTCHS went by... we became true believers...everything seemed possible now!
CROATS, FRENCHS... Argentna Wold Champion!!!!

Every single Argentinian citizen left his house to the street... 40 millom people celebrating at the same time, all week long!!! 

Can you Imagine it?
No.. you cant... let me show you some photos

PabloImpallari

The world become a perfect place!

Everyone was crazy happy and celebrating together! 40.000.000 people!!!
Not a single robbery, not a single fight, not a single incident... 
Republicans and Democrats all hugging and kissing each other.
An event like this never ever happened before in the history of mankind!
The air was full of great powerful energy.

And just like that.. all problems vanished aways... all excuses evaporated

We are the World Champions!
Everything was now possible!!

So now I was super happy and reinvigorated, full of good energy!
I'm a world champion now! I'm the King of the world!

I no longer feel like a node monkey. Now I'm the node KING KONG!!!
Of course I can do a silly neural network for typedesign!
How much difficult can it be... easy piece bro!

I sat down in front of the computer and somehow, I knew exactly what to do. 
Not a single doubt or excuse in my mind.. 

I already knew everything will be perfect. even before I sat down.
AlphabetMagic was going to work fine from the very first time, and I was going to have absolutely no problems at all.

And so I did it... all the programming took me 15 minutes.
I only had the system fonts in my computer. Can you believe it!

My entire font collection of more than 16.000 fonts, all my digital books, apps, everything related to typography was in my previous computer, all went lost 6months ago when some thieves broke into my house and stole it from me.

So I had to start from zero.
Instead of being sad about losing all my stuff, I framed it as a fresh start.
It was perfect!

I was the fatman!

So, training the AI took me some time... but I just did it!
And.. somehow... it worked, right from very 1rst try.

To In summary:
1st: 15 minutes python programming
2nd: France!
3rd: 2 days training the network

Thats all there is to it!
Thanks for reading! Have an awesome week!

Ray Larabie

I'm getting a little Elon Musk vibe off you lately, and it's highly uncool. You can be enthusiastic about technology and not act like an asshole. These things don't have to go hand-in-hand. It's good to be enthusiastic, but you've used some hurtful words in what you've written, particularly the R-word…that is very unkind to those with intellectual disabilities. Whatever are you going through is obviously fueling your creativity, but please be a bit more thoughtful and review what you've typed before hitting that post comment button.

PabloImpallari

Thanks for your advice Ray!

I'm not a native english speacker hence I use Google Translate while writing all the time..  In fact I write most of each paragraph in the google translate window first, and then copy-paste it here.

In Argentina we do have a derogatory term "Mogolico" that I avoided not to sound offensive.

"Retardado Mental" witch google translated is "Mentally retarded" is the general term we normally use over here with not any unkind implication.

We also have a 3rd and 4th terms "discapacitado" y "incapacitado" witch translates maybe as "disabled" and "incapable", im not tottaly sure, but we don't really use those. They are used by doctors in hospital, since they refer to different degrees of the problem. "Discapacitado" will be someone with a lesser degree of retardaness that is still enable to function quite like a normal person with no need for help from another person, a semi-retarded so to speak. While "incapacitado" will be someone that has a higher degree of retardaness that cant function without the help of another person of the family or that it need to be assisted in an institution.

I know those 3rd and 4th medical terms since I was in the mental hospital.. but most of the population thats is not into medicine wont. They would use "retardado" alone, since is shorted than the 2 words "Retardado mental" and its a natural human tendency to use shorter words and abbreviation instead of longer ones.

Truth that did not know it was unpronounceable for you or that it has any negative implications whatsoever. 

Any way... I feel that we are getting into a linguistics and syntax discussion now..

Also.. I guess you can understand that I had to faithfully describe the tremendous emphasis of the situation: I was furious with myself.. super furious.. my skin was all red... I was insulting myself.. not reffering to real retards, in fact i thinki used used the "mogolico" despective word.. in such a situation I would not use a non-offensive word.. i was very offended that I had to drag nodes around if AI was already available to other people... I was ready to kill a small kitty cat in that particular moment. And yes.. I was being a total asshole to myself... and so what? I in doing so it motivated me to come up with a solution, otherwise I will be still dragging nodes around. Do yo get it, right? I needed to feel the pain and suffering first in other to overcame it later.

Also I don't quite understand what do you mean about the "Elon Musk" vibe. All I know about about him is that he is the boss in Tesla, that his cars are the best of the best, and that there was some drama among teenagers when he bought twitter, and that we send rockets to space. If he was able to accomplish all that I'm guessing he must be smart, but since I'm not in the aeroespace industry I cant comment...

What do you mean by Elon musk vive? can you elaborate? It will be helpful for me.

Ray Larabie

"What do you mean by Elon musk vive? can you elaborate? It will be helpful for me."

Being arrogant and reckless with your words.

Ramiro Espinoza

"Fucking yellow japos" is a deeply racist expression and using Google Translate is not an excuse for it. Also, contrary to what Pablo is stating "Retardado Mental" is NOT a neutral, standard Spanish expression. It's as offensive and insensitive as the "r-word" in English. I think moderators should intervene here.

Paul van der Laan

I cannot imagine that Google Translate would produce so many spelling errors as well.

Yves Michel

Artificial Intelligence, Artificial paradises... What a program! 

PabloImpallari

Paul van der Laan said:

I cannot imagine that Google Translate would produce so many spelling errors as well.

Those are mine, of course ... 

PabloImpallari

Ramiro Espinoza said:

Is not an excuse for it.

I was only letting Ray know that my post-writting workflow. I'm not exccusing me!
And I dont really feel the need to excuse me. Why? Because (to me) insulting someone it's some kind of a compliment (believe it or not is your decision).
For example: If I told someone "fuck you, I hate you!" what I'm really meaning is "Fuck you, I love you!" In fact, in the very same sentence, I have said many positive things about them like "They are so intelligent, so focused, etc"... As you can see I don't think they are inferior. In fact I think they are superior in pretty much every single aspect.(Please take this "they are superior" words as a compliment to the japos, because you guys are soooo biased to misunderstood the way I write that Im now afraid you may take it as an insult to the non-japos, reading it with the meaning that the non-japos are inferior and accusing me  of being racist again)

Also I'm think I not being a racist because I don't insult any particular ethnic  or demographic group in particular over another one. I just insult everyone in the same inclusive way, you see: Im not making any discrimination. In fact the one person I insult with much more frequency is myself.

If I try to insult someone in a derogatory manner: I wont use an insult, I would simply ignore it.. so for me insults are friendly.

Maybe you guys think Im crazy but Im not.. Here is a talk that will be very insightful for many of you.. its a Roberto Fontanarrosa talk at the Real Academia Española conference, Roberto is a multiple time award winning writer and novelist from Rosario, my same city, He is not as big as Borges but maybe 50% or 60& like Borges. Hi is in the big league of Writers. His talk is an ode to the bad words, and the way we use those words... and his is preseting it in the Real Academmy, none the less. It's an amaizing talk.. maybe it helps you understand the way I talk, since Im a big fan on fontanarrosa's perspective on bad words.

If moderators thinks I crossed the line.. then ok..they are running the house... note taken! I have now learned that you guys may interpret bad words not the same way as I do.. so I will avoid talking like that in the future and self-moderate.

Far enough? Are we clear now?

Can we skip the cultural differences miss-understanding and get back to the important issue to discuss? The implication of AI on fonts and the end of the need of node dragging and future perspectives?  If so, Thanks in advance.

With AlphabetMagic you don't need to design from /a to /z any more.
You will only design and node-drag your "hambrugefon" and just push a button to get the rest, and it will be 9/% or 98% similar to what you would have done by node-dragging.

While that is something amazing.. I also thing It has a downside to it: When you have your "hambrugefon" ready... your design is still in progress, and while you are doing the rest of the letter you keep on making fine-tuning to you hambrugefon.

So, the downside of using AlphabetMagic for automatic a-z, its that you will be using not completely evolutionated and polished hambrugefon. Other than that I see no other downside to it. So in that sense, I still think that node-dragging is superior.
But I'm not so sure, since you can also evolve and fine-tune your AlphabetMagic A-Z results in the same way... 

PabloImpallari

Ray Larabie said:

"What do you mean by Elon musk vive? can you elaborate? It will be helpful for me."

Being arrogant and reckless with your words.

Thanks Ray! I will keep that in mind. I think that you pointing this out to me is actually helpful. I use your feedback as a way to train myself to improve my results in post-writing for the future, in the very same way Im using images to train the AlphabetMagic AI. I trust your advice. Ramiros and Paul advice, well, they have history with me since day 1 all the way back since 2010, so I know they are biased hence I don't trust their advice.
Im always happy to receive honest non-biased feedback

PabloImpallari

Ramiro Espinoza said:

Also, contrary to what Pablo is stating "Retardado Mental" is NOT a neutral, standard Spanish expression.

No is not. I disagree.
As I explained to Ray in my previous post, we have 4 terms for it.
- Mogolico: This one is the offensive one
- Retardado: The one we normally use with no negative implication.
- Discapacitado: Medical diagnosis term meaning low degree, still able to function without help
- Incapacitado: Medical diagnosis term meaning high degree and the need for external assistance

So people will also use Discapacitado, the medical term in a casual way, but veeeery few.
Usually the people with a higher degree level of education. Over here more than 50% of the population is under the poverty line, so as you can image most of the population does not has much education and use "Retardado" as the standard term with not any negative implication whatsoever. Some people with low-level education may use it too, but only those who has been directly exposed to the medical diagnosis term by having a direct connection with a person facing the issue.

We don't use use "Discapacitado" in day to day conversation because it mean many other disabilities, like someone in a wheelchair for example. And we dont use "Discapacitado Mental" because is too long. The standard term in day to day casual conversations is "retardado", contrary to what Ramiro is stating, and Im explaining why it is so.

Paul van der Laan

PabloImpallari said:

Ramiros and Paul advice, well, they have history with me since day 1 all the way back since 2010, so I know they are biased hence I don't trust their advice.

AFAIK I’ve never met you, and I’ve never reacted or responded to anything that you posted online ever. Until today when you blamed Google Translate for some of the offending and plainly racist things you wrote above. [Removed offending remark]

PabloImpallari

Paul van der Laan said:

but I get a sense there is still a monkey on your back.

If you are not biased against me, well, good to know it, i could have been wrong, not a problem for me to admit it. I can be wrong as much as any.
But by saying that I have a monkey in my back, now I think you are being disrespectful in a personal level. I don't think I deserved that. Also when things got personal.. they don't end up well