Eau de Garamond — a sans distilled from the essence of Garamond



  • The bold /oslash has very small counters, and the top and bottom of the o-shape looks a bit too altered to compensate for the bar. It looks okay in the lighter weight.
    My suggestions:
    > thin the bar of /oslash a bit. The part inside of the counter can be a few points thinner than the outside if needed.
    > Extend the bar a tiny bit, and
    > bring in the top and bottom of the o-shape counter a little.
  • This is a 15-page thread of a designer listening to constructive criticism and making subtle changes to a design over years. The implication I get from your comment that he's blind or careless to subtleties of design really feels out of place to me. 
    Thanks for the support, Craig! But I suppose I've come to terms with that fact that Andreas' advice comes with a side of humiliation; so far the tradeoff has been worthwhile, I would say. :grimace:
  • Thanks, Sander! Does this work? I did the same to the Roman version.

  • Yes, I think they fit in more with the other letters, although the italic /oslash looks less rotund than /o. I would extend the sides of the oval.
  • I’m sorry if I sounded a bit harshly; I only wanted to give the advice which I think is indispensable for a project such ambitious as this one: to proactively watch and ‘scan’ visually everything all the time.
  • I thinned the horizontal bar as per your suggestion, and that significantly improves the letters. Thanks!
    I also reduced the h and balanced the ff just a bit, but it doesn’t look different to me. No amount of looking and scanning will show me these things if they’re below my perceptive threshold. 🤷
  • @Sander Pedersen, like this?

  • Looks better. The distribution of black and white makes it appear similar to the surrounding letters, even though the oval is thinner than that of the /o.

    Some real words with oø/øo combinations, handy for proofs: kommandoøkonomi naboøya portoøkning sjøområde køorden miljøorganisasjon.

  • I've now completed the character set in Black Italic and am hoping to still make it into the Q2 release on Google Fonts... does anyone know when the deadline is?

  • Last-minute change: I always disliked how the staggered f_f ligature plays with subsequent f's... Apparently EB Garamond solves this problem with equal-depth descenders everywhere. Ysabeau does too, now.

  • But that solves a problem that almost never occurs at the cost of making the ff ligature less elegant... Also, is it just me, or is that S way too bold compared to the lowercase?
  • I agree that the previous ligature is more elegant, but even outside of the /f_f/f/ conjunction it often struck me as disruptive, as if it were derailing from the guidelines. I expect the new version to be better for legibility.
    You're right about the /S/. That probably happened in my latest round of tune-ups after Andreas' feedback. Andreas insisted the spine needed more oomph, but I might have neglected to trim away some weight elsewhere to compensate. Does this look better?

  • what I still don’t understand is these differences:

  • … and italic O and S deserve some tuning:

  • Christian ThalmannChristian Thalmann Posts: 1,772
    edited April 24
    The endings in /c/e/t/ are part of a load-bearing arc whereas those of /a/l/i/ are just off-flicks from an otherwise complete stem. I consider it entirely reasonable that the former should be heavier than the latter. I can try to make the former lighter to see whether that works, though.
    The /pi/ is related to /t/ but could probably bear to be coordinated with /alpha/. The top of /lambda/ is heavy by Irene's request, though. Greek doesn't care for a consistent pen angle.
  • … and italic O and S deserve some tuning:
    Oh, you're right, there are some unsightly red dots in there! How could I miss those...

  • Christian ThalmannChristian Thalmann Posts: 1,772
    edited April 24
    I tweaked a few letters to bring their offstrokes closer to each other. The thin-toed /t/ (second /t/ in the sample) looks unbalanced to be compared to the previous version, so I'm not using it. The case is even clearer for /c/.
    I think I improved the smoothness of the /S/ (even if it strikes me as very Gill Sans-y with those cuts). I couldn't find anything wrong with /O/, so I left it unchanged.

  • It seems to me like all your caps are considerably bolder than the lowercase. That's fine of course, it's a decision you can choose to make. But for my personal taste, the difference is a bit too pronounced. 
  • You were very right about /S/ before, but I don't see such a general trend in the rest of the typeface.
  • Steve GardnerSteve Gardner Posts: 137
    Is the /fa pair a touch loose?

    Also, is the /f_f ligature a touch tight?
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