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Dalton Maag is recruiting

Rafael SaraivaRafael Saraiva Posts: 30
edited October 2022 in Job Postings
Hello all,

Dalton Maag is recruiting 4 Font Developers to join its team. Location can be flexible by arrangement.

If you're interested, you'll find the complete job descriptions and more information on how to apply here: https://www.daltonmaag.com/studio/join-us

Thank you!
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Comments

  • Paul HanslowPaul Hanslow Posts: 141
    They're looking for:
    Font Dev
    Font Dev with Japanese Skills
    Font Dev with Cyrillic Skills
    Senior Font Dev 

    To save people from clicking, and I quote from the position PDFs, "Salary From £33,540 per annum, depending on experience. Salary is reviewed annually", with the Senior Font Dev position "From £50,320 per annum, depending on experience. Salary is reviewed annually".
  • Simon CozensSimon Cozens Posts: 698
    The US and UK tech industries are not directly comparable.
  • Nick ShinnNick Shinn Posts: 2,059
    The pound has been falling. 
    That £50k salary would have been $100k US in 2007.
  • James PuckettJames Puckett Posts: 1,947
    edited October 2022
    And London has a very high cost of living.
  • Hin-Tak LeungHin-Tak Leung Posts: 359
    edited October 2022
    Yes, typically one adds a £4k or £5k difference when comparing jobs in London and the rest of UK, because rent, transport, food etc all add up. £45k is quite low.

    It is not uncommon for people working in London to live outside London along one of the major train lines and pay seasonal train tickets for about £3k per year.
  • KP MawhoodKP Mawhood Posts: 294
    With "from" being the operative word, these salaries set a baseline for those "starting out" or "stepping up".

    Font dev, salary from £33,540
    Senior font dev, salary from £50,320

    The phrasing deliberately separates the baseline salary from those "with experience".
  • Hin-Tak LeungHin-Tak Leung Posts: 359
    edited October 2022
    Those are pretty low figures. Let's take it from the government - if your salary is less than 
    £27,295 , you may not need to repay your student loan, the money you borrow from the government to pay for your tuition: 
     https://www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/what-you-pay .

    So £30k is about what you should ask for, outside of London, if you just come out of university, to have some hope of repaying your student loans.

    That's for somebody who has absolutely no work experience.
  • Paul HanslowPaul Hanslow Posts: 141
    Full time jobs in type are as rare as rocking horse teeth so any graduate looking to get started in the industry may consider Dalton Maag as a good entry point. From people I've spoken to who started there, they have a training period for new hires which is commendable given how complex it can be to understand type design. It's one thing to draw letters, it's a total different skillset to understand production, hinting etc etc. Personally, when I finished the MATD at Reading I looked into Dalton but IIRC they weren't hiring people without EU citizenship (I'm Australian). Also London weather is not my cup of tea.

    As Simon says, the UK and US type industries are not directly comparable, and I'd add to this by saying USA and Canada are not directly comparable either when it comes to type jobs. 
  • Hin-Tak LeungHin-Tak Leung Posts: 359
    My figure above already argues that, if you were a UK citizen, taking out a government loan to attend MATD at Reading (plus perhaps another government loan for your degree before that), you should not be looking at any jobs offering less than £30k outside of London, because the job simply does not pay enough to cover your debt on tuition fees to get educated to get there in the first place...
  • Paul HanslowPaul Hanslow Posts: 141
    I agree with you but you're dealing in absolutes. Not every student who attends Reading's MATD pays out of their own pocket: some may have wealthy parents, some may have gotten a grant...there are many scenarios and the whole situation is nuanced given that different people have different desires and goals.

    Acquiring type knowledge and expertise, while being employed and paid to do so, can be a strong incentive for some budding type designers. I agree with you that Dalton Maag's figures are somewhat low given their geographic location and the expensive cost of living in London. However, some people play the long game i.e. get employed by Dalton, learn as much as possible, move on after a few years and start making more money by going freelance or working for a different type company/foundry. 

    I agree with what you're saying Hin-Tak. I really do. Type designers should be compensated fairly for their skills given the expensive cost of acquiring the knowledge within institutions like Reading. The problem is (and I speak from when I attended Reading), little effort is taken towards explaining the type industry as an entity to students: What does a font cost? How do you cost a job if it's exclusive to a client? This knowledge is golden as it gives up-and-coming type designers a framework of their possible worth and what to expect once jumping into the industry. 
  • Hin-Tak LeungHin-Tak Leung Posts: 359
    edited November 2022
    I am not sure why people keep talking about US. https://www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/what-you-pay is UK government figure. £30k is about what you need to have, outside of London, if you borrow any student loans for tuition, to have any hope of repaying it. It is nice to be independently wealthy, or have rich parents, but that's not the point.

    FWIW, the official UK government figure for hourly minimum wage for adults is currently £9.50 I think. That's about £18k per year, for unskilled and untrained labour, at 40 hours * 52 weeks minus 25 days.

    £18k is the official UK minimum wage for unskilled and untrained labour. That's a context.

  • Marc FoleyMarc Foley Posts: 13
    A degree isn't a requirement to work at DaMa. Also, student loans in the UK are written off after 30 years. It's estimated that 83% of student loans in the UK are not going to be paid off. No one is going to face bankruptcy. Only folks who work in white collar jobs will do it under the current system.

    DaMa's entry level salary for a font dev is basically double UK minimum wage and much higher than a junior graphic designer based in London. The truth is that wages are what they are due to demand. There are a lot of people chasing these jobs whose skills are at the correct level.

    Btw, I'm not independently wealthy or have rich parents. What worked for me was living inside the M25 and then applying when they landed a few big contracts.

    I will admit that under the current UK student loan scheme, I'd only go to university if it could build me a money printing press.
  • Simon CozensSimon Cozens Posts: 698
    edited November 2022
    Hin-Tak Leung said:
    I am not sure why people keep talking about US. https://www.gov.uk/repaying-your-student-loan/what-you-pay is UK government figure. £30k is about what you need to have, outside of London, if you borrow any student loans for tuition, to have any hope of repaying it.
    We have a different approach to student debt here. Low salaries don't make student debt repayment impossible, they make repayment unnecessary.
  • Hin-Tak LeungHin-Tak Leung Posts: 359
    I suppose work in a minimum wage job for 30 years is a good idea, if the objective is to avoid repaying government student loans. Let's say the tuition money comes from your parents drawing on their pension schemes, or remortgaging the family home to finance your student life style for 30 years till you are in your 50's 😀.
  • KP MawhoodKP Mawhood Posts: 294
    Hin-Tak Leung said:
    I suppose work in a minimum wage job for 30 years is a good idea, if the objective is to avoid repaying government student loans. Let's say the tuition money comes from your parents drawing on their pension schemes, or remortgaging the family home to finance your student life style for 30 years till you are in your 50's 😀.
    There are Brits who actively abuse the system, but I always understood  that as an unavoidable part of the welfare state.

    @Hin-Tak Leung Are you acutely familiar with current UK politics and economics?
  • Hin-Tak LeungHin-Tak Leung Posts: 359
    @KP Mawhood as familiar or unfamiliar as the average person who lives in UK (SE England, not too far from London) for the past few decades, I think :smile: .
  • KP MawhoodKP Mawhood Posts: 294
    @Hin-Tak Leung Then I do not understand your expectations for DaMa's baseline salaries.

    In which percentile of UK salaries would you place full-time employed type professionals, who are (1) starting out in a new role or (2) stepping up to senior?
  • James MontalbanoJames Montalbano Posts: 42
    edited November 2022
    Years ago I was talking to the guys at Ascender (remember them? matching the dyed shirts at all the conferences). We were discussing compensation for various font work. I did work as a sub-contractor for them. We were talking about available talent in type design and where it was coming from. The subject of recent Reading grads came up, and they all started rolling their eyes. It turns out that all the Reading grads they had interviewed had an overly optimistic view of their worth and were asking for, in Ascender's view, outrageous hourly wages. All had the degree, but had no experience.
  • Paul HanslowPaul Hanslow Posts: 141
    edited November 2022
    This really makes me wonder what Ascender deemed 'overly optimistic' in terms of salary, and what value Reading graduates were placing on their worth.


  • James MontalbanoJames Montalbano Posts: 42
    IIRC the recent Reading grads were asking for US$200 per hour. Ascender considered that "Overly optimistic" considering their lack of experience.
  • James PuckettJames Puckett Posts: 1,947
    James Montalbano said:
    IIRC the recent Reading grads were asking for US$200 per hour. Ascender considered that "Overly optimistic" considering their lack of experience.
    That seems overly optimistic for someone with years of experience unless you’re in NYC or NorCal.
  • KP MawhoodKP Mawhood Posts: 294
    How does a person define their own value for these different terms /amount of work?
  • Johannes NeumeierJohannes Neumeier Posts: 340
    Need or greed.
  • k.l.k.l. Posts: 91
    edited November 2022
    Derailing? To the contrary. Spot on!
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