When did non-traditional cedillas appear?

When did non-traditional cedillas, such as the one shown below, first appear? I threw a newer style cedilla into an antique slab serif and I can’t decide if it’s too weird.



Comments

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 2,483
    The best person to ask is Jean François Porchez. Some of his sans serif from the 1990s and maybe more recently have disconnected serifs. He can likely tell you about their history in France.
  • Olexa VolochayOlexa Volochay Posts: 21
    edited October 15
    With the advent of modernism, the calligraphic nature of the cedilla was thought somewhat jarring on sans-serif typefaces, and so some designers instead substituted a comma design, which could be made bolder and more compatible with the style of the text. This reduces the visual distinction between the cedilla and the diacritical comma.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cedilla

    Modern typography was a reaction against the perceived decadence of typography and design of the late 19th century. It is mostly associated with the works of Jan Tschichold and Bauhaus typographers Herbert Bayer, László Moholy-Nagy, El Lissitzky and others.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_typography




  • Craig EliasonCraig Eliason Posts: 1,299
    I see in my big Frutiger catalog that the alphabet he designed for the Paris-Roissy airport includes a detached cedilla. That was in the early 1970s. 
    Notably, it tapers the other way than the one pictured in the top post (i.e. thicker at the bottom than the top). 
  • I’m spending some time around the Costa Brava and see more cedillas that are based on a comma or slash, than the traditional variety. Here’s some pictures that I posted to my Twitter yesterday:
    https://twitter.com/herzbergdesign/status/1582122979890462720?s=46&t=kI_6MX-IeOQFLU6r2JiZmw

    Just a reminder that legibility is flexible, and any dangly bit hanging below a C will likely be recognized as a cedilla.
  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 2,483
    I’m spending some time around the Costa Brava and see more cedillas that are based on a comma or slash, than the traditional variety.
    One sees similar things in Turkey. I even saw one sign in Istanbul in which the cedilla was represented by a dot below the C. But this variety is very particular to local signage in a particular language and, sometimes, packaging design. Similar things happen with other diacritics, e.g. I have seen Cyrillic signs in which the kratka on Й is represented as a straight line like a macron.
  • I have seen Cyrillic signs in which the kratka on Й is represented as a straight line like a macron.
    And ring, and dot, and caron, and acute... It all depends on the designer. But in most cases, this is due either to the style of the font or to the logos.
  • Simon CozensSimon Cozens Posts: 641
    edited October 19
    In an even older cedilla discussion (on Typophile), you posted this, Nick, with the comment "Didot, 1800":

    That's a disconnected cedilla in the traditional shape, of course. The discussion also talked about undercomma cedillas, which seem to be more common in Brazil, and that Goudy Old Style has an undercomma cedilla. JFP's Parisine has both forms. And here is an example from 1540: 

  • Nick ShinnNick Shinn Posts: 1,925
    edited October 19
    In an even older cedilla discussion (on Typophile), you posted this, Nick, with the comment "Didot, 1800":

    Thanks for the memory jog, Simon.

    What I like about that Didot cedilla design is its relationship with the other diacritics—namely that it has has (1) a similar presence (weight and size) to the other accents, and (2) fully occupies the “descender space”, complementing the way that the superior accents fill the ascender space.

    This relationship with the other accents is, I think, equally (if not more so) as important as its shape, because those of us who look more deliberately and analytically at the mark than unconsciously reading it as a “dangly bit” (which Matthijs refers to) will be considering the cedilla’s participation in the overall diacritic scheme. 
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