Critique needed for sans serif wordmark

Shravan A S
Shravan A S Posts: 23
in Type Design Critiques
Hi,
This is a logo + wordmark I designed for which I need critique. I am fairly new to type design, but have been actively indulging into it. Please give your feedback on this.

Thanks in advance
Looking forward to engaging with this community.t
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Comments

  • Adam Ladd
    Adam Ladd Posts: 263
    edited July 2020
    What sticks out to me is the seemingly varied widths: the last three letters feel wider than the first two. I'd be inclined to try to narrow the last three a little bit first and see how it feels.

    Also, the ending strokes on the E feel a bit too staggered.
  • Philipp Schumann
    Philipp Schumann Posts: 15
    Looking great! Very minor improvements:
    - Slightly higher curve tension on the /O
    - Slightly smoother transitions (from a curve to straight line) on /B and /D. How to achieve this? I like using this technique, pictured below (taken from a /U). Please bear in mind that my typeface has a higher curve tension than yours, so the exact values may vary. Just experiment and see what looks best :smile:


  • Philipp Schumann
    Philipp Schumann Posts: 15
    Adam Ladd said:
    What sticks out to me is the seemingly varied widths: the last three letters feel wider than the first two. I'd be inclined to try to narrow the last three a little bit first and see how it feels.

    Also, the ending strokes on the E feel a bit too staggered.
    I kind of disagree with you, Adam. A narrower /D might look a bit too flimsy, while a narrower /N might look to dark, compared to O and D especially. 
    The staggered look of the ending strokes on /E brings some character to the wordmark, and helps the combination of /E and /O, in my opinion.

    Oh, and just another little detail to add: Check the thickness of the middle crossbar on /B: If the thickness is the same as on the other two crossbars, it looks a bit too thick. You might want to thin it out a tiny bit.
  • Adam Ladd
    Adam Ladd Posts: 263
    I hear you Philipp. I think I see the B as a little too dark and narrow compared to the O and N (agree about not wanting the D flimsy), so the balance feels a little off to me.

    As for the staggered E (I think it's maybe the middle stroke that might be a touch too stumpy), I feel like the wordmark is quite neutral overall and so the variation there seems a little jarring/distracting.
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    Adam Ladd said:
    What sticks out to me is the seemingly varied widths: the last three letters feel wider than the first two. I'd be inclined to try to narrow the last three a little bit first and see how it feels.

    Also, the ending strokes on the E feel a bit too staggered.
    I see that.
    So, I extended the /E a little bit. I think it solves it. what do you think?
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    Philipp Schumann said:
    Adam Ladd said:
    What sticks out to me is the seemingly varied widths: the last three letters feel wider than the first two. I'd be inclined to try to narrow the last three a little bit first and see how it feels.

    Also, the ending strokes on the E feel a bit too staggered.
    I kind of disagree with you, Adam. A narrower /D might look a bit too flimsy, while a narrower /N might look to dark, compared to O and D especially. 
    The staggered look of the ending strokes on /E brings some character to the wordmark, and helps the combination of /E and /O, in my opinion.

    Oh, and just another little detail to add: Check the thickness of the middle crossbar on /B: If the thickness is the same as on the other two crossbars, it looks a bit too thick. You might want to thin it out a tiny bit.
    Philipp Schumann said:
    Looking great! Very minor improvements:
    - Slightly higher curve tension on the /O
    - Slightly smoother transitions (from a curve to straight line) on /B and /D. How to achieve this? I like using this technique, pictured below (taken from a /U). Please bear in mind that my typeface has a higher curve tension than yours, so the exact values may vary. Just experiment and see what looks best :smile:


    Hey thanks Philip,

    I a, still not so used to with the technical language. Would you mind explaining what does 'Higher curve tension' mean? And I am working on illustrator and i don't see these numbers, is there a workaround?

    I agree,
    If try to condense N it will darken, so I tried to extend E how does it look?

    Also, as you pointed out I want to retain some character to it. I wanna park it somewhere near the edge of becoming neutral, If it makes sense.

    Thanks a lot :) 
  • Adam Ladd
    Adam Ladd Posts: 263
    I'd be curious to see the B also widened slightly (not a lot). And then maybe posting a before and after image with the original on top and update on bottom for reference for all.
  • Andreas Stötzner
    Andreas Stötzner Posts: 792
    O and D are still slightly too light. O may get a bit more beefy. Right side of D is too light. The weight distribution of the N ought to be reversed: the middle part actually being the strong one.
    The subtle weight difference in the bow shape (left) may be a bit more prominent; the flame (?) even more so (modestly). The distance between the two shapes a bit lesser?
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    Adam Ladd said:
    I'd be curious to see the B also widened slightly (not a lot). And then maybe posting a before and after image with the original on top and update on bottom for reference for all.
    Here it is the 1st and the 3rd version (B extended)
  • Craig Eliason
    Craig Eliason Posts: 1,436
    edited July 2020
    I think the O, at least its outer contour, is too pointy top and bottom amidst these other very rectangular letters. Broadening those bezier handles of the top and bottom extrema would also help the thinness I'm seeing at 1/5/7/11 o'clock. If you make that change, check if the overshoot needs to be consequently reduced.
    Still needs more smoothness in the straight-to-curve transitions of B and D.
    I think ND should be a hair tighter, and the whole word might be a little high compared to the center of gravity of the logo.
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    Andreas Stötzner said:
    O and D are still slightly too light. O may get a bit more beefy. Right side of D is too light. The weight distribution of the N ought to be reversed: the middle part actually being the strong one.
    The subtle weight difference in the bow shape (left) may be a bit more prominent; the flame (?) even more so (modestly). The distance between the two shapes a bit lesser?
    Yes,
    I see it now.
    I did thicken the O and D. And also did the N. I am kinda happy with the weight difference in the mark. But i did bring them closer though. 
    Here it is. Let me know what do you think.

    Thanks a lot
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    Craig Eliason said:
    I think the O, at least its outer contour, is too pointy top and bottom amidst these other very rectangular letters. Broadening those bezier handles of the top and bottom extrema would also help the thinness I'm seeing at 1/5/7/11 o'clock. If you make that change, check if the overshoot needs to be consequently reduced.
    Still needs more smoothness in the straight-to-curve transitions of B and D.
    I think ND should be a hair tighter, and the whole word might be a little high compared to the center of gravity of the logo.
    I did touch the O and tried curving out B and D. But i am not sure it worked. I dont know if it made it better or worse. Please tell
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    I shifted to Glyphs. And here is the B glyph and its points. I sthere anything to be pointed
    out?
     
  • Philipp Schumann
    Philipp Schumann Posts: 15
    The handles on the inner curves seem fine to me, you should bring those outer transition handles on the top and lower crossbar a bit further back, though. They shouldn't be that far apart from the inner ones, just a little bit.
    On a side note, curve tension is an important term and worth reading about a little bit for sure! ;) As a starting point: An /O with extremely high curve tension looks square-ish, as can be seen for example in the typeface Eurostile.
  • Craig Eliason
    Craig Eliason Posts: 1,436
    edited July 2020
    Use Paths > Tidy Up Paths to turn those mistaken corner points (blue) into proper curve points (green). 
    All is looking better. 
    Andreas’s point above about the N stress is worth trying out. 
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    After everyone's critique I have come to this final stage. PLease let me know of there are any major issues left. 

    Thanks in advance
  • Andreas Stötzner
    Andreas Stötzner Posts: 792
    see my comment above, apart from O all points are still unsolved
  • Shravan A S
    Shravan A S Posts: 23
    Andreas Stötzner said:
    see my comment above, apart from O all points are still unsolved

    I tried your N treatment but it started to darken a lot. And do you think the D is still light?

  • Adam Ladd
    Adam Ladd Posts: 263
    When you feel it's in a good place, can you post another before/after image with one on top of the other for comparison again... I mean the original version to newest version.

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