Changes To Reactions Redux

James Hultquist-Todd

In an effort to simplify things, the reactions have been changed. “Like”, “Off Topic”, and “Vote Down” have been removed and “Abuse” has been added. Our hope is that this will streamline things.

Posts with at least 5 Abuse tags will be placed in the moderation queue.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

I'm not seeing the Abuse flag.

James Hultquist-Todd

Sorry, it’s under the “Flag” option.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

Oh, my bad.

joeclark

How about “Posts containing http:// or https:// will be placed in the moderation queue,” since those are dead givaways of somebody just dumbly pasting in an URL?

Will Typedrawers ever solve its actual problems?

PabloImpallari

Joe.. you are the only one who cares about that.
I understand and respect your concern since I follow your accessibility stuff from the 90's when I was doing web development, information architecture, usability, etc... but nobody else cares if people use the full url. Some people actually prefer to see it.
You are a pioneer in all things accessibility.. but now a days, tablet and phones, they don't have the "rollhover" thingy to see where the link will take you, so its a bit of guesswork if the url is not vissible

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

FWIW, I totally don't mind somebody being the only person who cares about something. I just think Joe needs to admit it can come from a deliberate, non-dumb decision.

BTW Joe "an URL" is wrong to me.

André G. Isaak

Regardless of one’s position on URLs, it’s hardly the sort of thing that the moderators should be responsible for any more than they should be responsible for other formatting decisions in a post. You must think the moderators have an extreme excess of free time on their hands.

André

Craig Eliason

I miss "Like".

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

@Dan Reynolds Joe's post does NOT merit an Abuse flag.

I hope the moderators are serious about implementing consequences for abusive flagging.
#4: http://typedrawers.com/discussion/751/read-this-first-the-typedrawers-rules

Stephen Coles

I dunno, Hrant. If you repeatedly complain about an issue that is clearly your own, I would consider it spam, and thus abuse. See Rule 3. 

Ray Larabie

I've applied the off-topic tags to post that are complaints about how the reaction buttons are used. Complaining about tags or requesting justification for a tag seems to defeat their purpose. Why did you disagree? Why is that abuse? Why is this off topic? Maybe someone clicked disagree because they wanted to indicate disagreement without causing a fuss. Maybe they're cowards. Maybe they were running late and didn't have time. Maybe they want you to go away. Maybe they're trolling you. But if everyone questioned every flag, there's not much point in having flags.

...and you never hear "why did you agree with my post?"

I've also used off-topic on posts which are complaints about the management of this site. People should be allowed to complain but bitching about moderators in the middle of a thread about another topic is rude. "HEY EVERYONE! I HAVE  A PROBLEM WITH THE WAY THINGS WORK AROUND HERE AND I WANT EVERYONE TO HEAR ABOUT IT!" There's a section called Suggestions and Bug reports.

Do you think the abuse flag is appropriate for these types of posts? Now that we have a different set of buttons, is it more a disagree thing? Off-topic was a softer version of abuse. But the abuse tag seems kind of hard-core for tagging posts that are merely annoying and rude.

Samuil Simonov

I'd rather the off-topic flag came back. Flags should be there to facilititate focused and interesting discussions, to replace short and not very informative replies.

Want to thank someone for making you smarter? Click "Insightful" instead of writing "That was very interesting, Bob".

Want to indicate your agreement? Click "Agree", instead of writing "I agree with Bob's comments".

Want to indicate your disagreement? You wouldn't write "With all due respect, Bob, you're wrong" and stop there. So this reaction is not really needed; if you disagree you can write a proper reply. It could remain only to show the net reaction of the community at a glance.

Want to bring the discussion back on track? Click "Off-topic" instead of saying "Bob, I'm not sure what persecution of Nahuatl people by the Spanish Crown has to do with slab serifs".

We don't get spam accounts here, so the flagging should be reserved only for personal attacks, which are thankfully rare. I don't think it should be visible to all the users, it's not there to shame the abuser into sumbission, but to alert the moderators.

Chris Lozos

We do get spam here, but they deal with it well.

James Hultquist-Todd

The problem with using “Off Topic” is that it doesn’t alert the moderators. There was no easy way for us to keep track of who was consistently making off topic posts. 

Mark Simonson

It doesn't seem like "off topic" needs to lead to any sort of action from the moderators. I like Samuil's take on it, that it is a way to get the discussion back on track.

Dyana Weissman

I agree with you in spirit, Mark, but in practice, some of those threads would *not* go back on track, despite the flag. 

Ray Larabie

I took the off-topic flag to mean "cool it" which resulted in me either cooling it or starting a new thread. It's not the same as a disagree flag. Some people might take disagree to mean "please tell us more".

But then I suppose you could get a better result by posting, "I've started a new thread in the X section so we can continue this."

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

@Dyana Weissman Everybody naturally reacts to the various flags differently, so it's a matter of finding common language, instead of assuming the worst. @Ray Larabie is right that in many cases an "Off-Topic" flag can help increase focus. In contrast "Abuse" is the harshest reaction and should not be used lightly; it's a disproportionate escalation when used on a minor annoyance.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

James Todd said:

There was no easy way for us to keep track of who was consistently making off topic posts. 

Is there a way to put "Off-Topic" under Flag?

I hope you can also figure out a way to keep track of who is consistently marking posts... Veiled personal attacks from the safety of flagging versus actually posting is something that can quietly amplify resentment.

Dyana Weissman

The changes are not about the meaning of the flags. The changes are about the limits of the forum software (and the complaints of our users). We can't put Off-Topic under Flag, for example. There's no Flag other than Abuse that will send a post to the moderation queue at this time. 

As noted in Rule #4, people should flag responsibly. 

If removing some of the flags means people will have to be more communicative, then, maybe it's time for that. Designers are communicators, after all. 

notdef

So, if someone is not abusive but is polluting the conversation with off topic comments, how are we supposed to alert moderators?

Ramiro Espinoza

@Frode You can send a message to any of the moderators using TD's messaging function.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Mark Simonson

Maybe an "eye-roll" reaction? 

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

@Frode @Ramiro Espinoza First see if you're the only one flagging something off-topic, and give it a chance to have an effect. Also, the less even-handed the flagging, the less seriously it's taken.

Veiled personal attacks from the safety of flagging versus actually posting is something that can quietly amplify resentment.

Case in point: check out the two Abuse flags on me that just kicked in (retroactively) and judge for yourself whether they're warranted.

I hope the moderators are sensitive to this.

Dyana Weissman

@Frode As noted in the rules, "Any post breaking these rules can be flagged." Off-topic posts would be breaking Rule #2. Feel free to flag in those instances and/or contact the moderators privately, as @Ramiro Espinoza noted.

It is unfortunate that we can't rename the Abuse flag to something more intuitive. 

jeremy tribby

Craig Eliason said:

I miss "Like".

Like and Agree do mean very different things

Thomas Phinney

On the one hand, Like and Agree are different ideas. But we also have Insightful available. For me, Like and Insightful cover enough ground in this area.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

I think Agree is the most valuable of the three, and Like can do most of the job of Insightful and then some. Also, Insightful is sometimes [mis]used in a subversive way...

Ben Blom

“Like” has been awarded a lot to posts which are supposed to be funny, but don’t help the discussion very much. I think there can be enough fun between the lines of serious posts. No need for “funny posts”, and the “Like” flag which rewards such posts.