I'm starting a new price quotation for a new custom font for a BIG client, and I need some help, the work consist in a font with 3 weights with a basic character set (256glyphs) and I always have problems to find the right quotation. After some research decided to charge 21k (euro) for the project - 7k per weight but the client wants to own the font, so decided to add 150% plus in the price, so + 63K, bringing in a total of 84k for the project. I'm looking for some opinions about my decision, if I'm doing right proceeding like this? Thanks a lot.
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Also I'm confused about the calculation. Wouldn't 21k + 150% = 52.5k? (21 + 21*1.5) or is my maths wrong...
Also I'm confused about the calculation. Wouldn't 21k + 150% = 52.5k? (21 + 21*1.5) or is my maths wrong...
You must also think beyond the cost of simply drawing letters in your font program. Your work goes beyond that. You must factor in font engineering and possibly hinting, particularly, if you work for a corporate client, and you must factor in potential support time that you will inevitably incur. IMO, I think that a price of around US$ 20-25k per weight is appropriate for a Western European glyph set (ANSII), giving the client three years exclusivity. If they want to own the rights, double the price.
If they think that you're too expensive and argue that they can have lots of fonts for 'free' from other sources then tell them to go to hell.
Bruno
I think your pricing structure is right on. My pricing has been somewhere in the range of 17-20K, depending on the complexity and number of glyphs. Although, I have experienced a lack of commitment from clients when going over the 20K limit.
I am curious though, in your experience, the percent of clients that opt for ownership of the fonts and are willing to pay double the price. Thanks again.
Your question seems to imply that you did not work for many 'BIG' customers before. My advice is to take it easy and negotiate in a relaxed manner with your client. The valuable advices by all these millionaires on this forum are priceless, but perhaps it's easier for them in their circumstances to ask for premium prices (i.e., for them these are not premium) than it's for you at the moment.
If this is a Lighthouse Customer, play it smart. Four weights are perhaps better than three. Raise your price and include Turkish, Central- and Eastern European characters. Make a separate quote for delta hinting, if applicable. If you're doing a proper job, they will remain your customer and other customers will probably follow. Success!
FEB
The only question is, can you serve that smaller customer while still making a profit? Probably yes, if you structure the deal cleverly. Most likely by not including things like manual hinting or a super extended characterset in such a price.
Back about four years ago I did some pricing and found that I could get some pretty solid work from designers I trusted who were not really super big name designers, but solid known quantities, around $5K per style, or $20K USD for a four-member family, including CE support, and buying all rights.
Now admittedly, there's been some inflation, and more importantly that was the depths of the recession, so maybe people were willing to work cheaper then than they would be now.
Certainly I am slow enough that if I was doing it I would be charging more than $5K per style, for sure.
As a guide I took an average of 150 hours for a Western European glyphset, per weight. I must state again, that this is for conceputalising, drawing the letters, spacing and kerning. It does not include hinting which can get rather involved. You may argue that font tools nowadays include autohint facilities. Believe me when I say that for custom fonts it's not good enough. I have worked with too many clients and know that they are more demanding that this.
When I give a figure of $46 you need to remember that this is gross. This is not money in your pocket. You have to pay tax and social security from that, anywhere between 20% to 60%, depending where you live. If you live in the low tax bracket that leaves you with around $35 in your pocket, per hour. Low tax means you pay your own health insurance, dental costs, and other bits that otherwise the state would take care of. You also need to add some money to your pension fund or other old age savings vehicle. Immediately, you can knock off another $10 an hour. You haven't even bought any of the equipment you need to make that font. And software: Adobe CS, Office and others for testing; and paper for your printer; and electricity to actually run the bloody computer. (Did you know that the UK energy companies are jacking up the prices by 3.5% fromJanaury?). And so on and on.
And finally, you need to eat. Once you take off all the expenses to just make the typeface, you will go starving, like the proverbial artist. But then again, society has always argued that the best artist is a starving artist. Well, screw that.
By all means, structure your pricing, divide it up into different bite-size chunks. It helps the client understand your billing and what you do for it. But once they tally up all the different things they need, you will still end up at the $20-25 k tag. There is no way around it if you actually want to live.
As technology moves on, we find ourselves increasingly in a situation where what people see is design, drawing, wonderful letterforms. So, the client's perception of what we do is entirely visual. The reality is that we're actually software developers and our products are software. The drawing part is the easy thing to do. It's to make the drawing work in every conceivable situation that is the hard part. And that takes skill and experience; hours, days, weeks of research. That needs to be paid for, too. I don't want to starve.
Sorry for the long post. Too many type designers delude themselves thinking that by offering their services for under $10 per weight, they do themselves a favour. All they manage to do is to devalue the product we create, and to make it harder and harder to make a living from what we love doing.
BTW, we still pay our people decent wages so they can actually live. We will never pay anyone below London Living Wages. We pay 32 days holiday, including bank (public) holidays, statutory sick benefits, 3% contribution to pension funds, and profit related bonus.
Cheers
Bruno
Probably an amazing dental plan, though.
I agree, it is crazy to ask for less than you actually need just to get a job. But what you need is up to any individual person or company.
But this also means it’s strange that designers ask in forums “What should I charge for …?”. No one can answer that. You need to calculate your time and costs and the offer must reflect exactly that and nothing else. If the client is not willing to pay that, then don’t take the job. In that regard I agree to Bruno.
I don't know where you're pulling this "the £33K you thought was monthly is actually annual" shit from but come on.