German Script Assistance, Antique Melone / Bowler Hat

HutmannHutmann Posts: 8
edited August 2 in History of Typography
I am a collector of German and Austrian vintage hats.  I have an old Melone/Bowler hat and the following writing was found on the back of the liner.  

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4321/36119419996_7b109167e7_b.jpg

I am thinking this hat is from the early 1900s but was hoping the script might help with the dating.  

This letter is on the sweatband.  I am thinking it might be a Fraktur "I" or "J".    

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4301/36142794076_1c38722b3e_c.jpg

There is also the use of inches witch I was thinking might be German Zoll measurement.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4325/36119417826_b738d7503c_b.jpg

This is the outside and inside of the Melone/Bowler.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4198/34828942066_aa573e2f00_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4157/34737103311_e13b713d24_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4274/34024926574_d7f0dbea2d_b.jpg

Thanks for the help!

-Steve

Comments

  • Florian HardwigFlorian Hardwig Posts: 117
    edited August 2
    Hi Steve, I don’t see how the script could help with the dating. The first image includes a line saying “R. 1857”, but that doesn’t tell us much.
    The sign on the inside is more revealing: “H[einri]ch Klipper Offenbach, a.M.” is in Behrens-Schrift, a typeface that was first cast by the Rudhard’sche Gießerei in 1901. The sign can’t be any older than that. Behrens-Schrift was immensely popular in the first and second decade of the 20th century, but it’s impossible to rule out a later date. The Klipper company existed from 1858 to 1965, but you probably knew that already.

  • HutmannHutmann Posts: 8
    Hello Florian,

    Thank you for the quick reply and great information.  Do you think the 22 1/2 might be Zoll?  The hat does measure ~ 22 1/2 inches which is just over 57 cm.   Also what about the single letter on the inside of the sweatband?   Thanks!

    Best,
    Steve 
  • HutmannHutmann Posts: 8
    Hello Florian,

    I have some details on Klipper (see link below).  The owner told me it was from around 1905.  This hat belonged to her great grandfather.  The style and components of the hat seem to point to that time period. 

    http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/291-hch-klipper-comp-offenbach-a-m/

    Best,
    Steve
  • Florian HardwigFlorian Hardwig Posts: 117
    edited August 2
    The shopfront pictures are a delight.
    Do you think the 22 1/2 might be Zoll?
    That sounds plausible to me. I don’t know about hats in particular, but at least in some areas, Zoll remained a common unit until deep into the 20th century.
    Also what about the single letter on the inside of the sweatband?

    No Fraktur, but rather a bold Antiqua with ball terminals, as it was common in the time and period, cf. this piece of fascia lettering from Heidelberg. It could be either a ‘J’ with a spur, or bifurcated base (as in a Tuscan), or simply a minuscule ‘r’. A wild guess: Would the manufacturer have felt the need to denote the right-hand (rechts) side?

  • HutmannHutmann Posts: 8
    Hello Florian,

    Sorry for my late reply.

    Thank you for the additional great information! 

    If it's an "r" then it's stamped 360 degrees from the "22 1/2".  I guess an "r" could denote right-hand side but not sure why that would be needed unless maybe during the sweatband construction.  The sweatband construction is completed prior to installation in the hat.

    Do you have any idea why "Extra Quality" was used on the liner?  In most cases you see "Extra Qualität" (see below).  Could this be time specific?

    Rehfus & Cie.  "Extra Extra Qualität"  
     
    http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7267/7809332052_724542e5ab_b.jpg

    I am think this hat is probably from the 1920s.  Can you see anything in the printing that might point to a specific time period?

    http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/20-rehfus-federleicht/#entry605

    Thanks again!

    -Steve

  • Do you have any idea why "Extra Quality" was used on the liner?  In most cases you see "Extra Qualität" (see below).  Could this be time specific?

    I assume the English spelling was chosen because it appears underneath the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom.

    Can you see anything in the printing that might point to a specific time period?
    Sorry, I don’t. The letterforms for “Wilhelm Rühle Stuttgart” are in style that also appears in several typefaces, typically named (Breite halbfette) Renaissance. They came into fashion around 1880, but didn’t fall out of use before the 1920s or even the 1930s.

  • HutmannHutmann Posts: 8
    Hello Florian,

    Thank you again for the great information.

    That makes sense that they would use English because to the Royal Coat of Arms of the UK.  

    Thanks again.

    -Steve


  • HutmannHutmann Posts: 8
    edited August 15
    Hello Florian,

    I posted an update on my website.  Thank you for the help!

    (Make sure to Scroll down) 

    http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/291-hch-klipper-comp-offenbach-a-m/#entry1790


    Best,
    Steve
  • HutmannHutmann Posts: 8
    Hello Florian,

    I hope all is well with you. 

    I was wondering if you could tell me anything about this script (type, dating).

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4344/36878068555_d98926355e_c.jpg

    This is the hat.

    http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/130-ems-hutfabrik/#entry753

    Thanks!

    Best,
    Steve
  • Hi Steve,

    The “Gloria” logo looks custom to me, I can’t reliably date it. The original hat shop bag (H. Moeller Marburg) is a tad more helpful in this regard: Some of the lines are set in a face known as Druckhaus-Antiqua, among other names. The schmal halbfett weight used for “Cylinder- und Klapphüte” was not added before 1910, see the typeface bio on Fonts In Use. I’d estimate that this typeface was in use at least until the 1930s.

    Best, Florian


  • Hello Florian,

    Sorry for the late reply.  Thank you for the great information!

    Best,
    Steve
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