I am a collector of German and Austrian vintage hats. I have an old Melone/Bowler hat and the following writing was found on the back of the liner.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4321/36119419996_7b109167e7_b.jpgI am thinking this hat is from the early 1900s but was hoping the script might help with the dating.
This letter is on the sweatband. I am thinking it might be a Fraktur "I" or "J".
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4301/36142794076_1c38722b3e_c.jpgThere is also the use of inches witch I was thinking might be German Zoll measurement.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4325/36119417826_b738d7503c_b.jpgThis is the outside and inside of the Melone/Bowler.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4198/34828942066_aa573e2f00_b.jpghttps://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4157/34737103311_e13b713d24_b.jpghttps://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4274/34024926574_d7f0dbea2d_b.jpgThanks for the help!
-Steve
Comments
The sign on the inside is more revealing: “H[einri]ch Klipper Offenbach, a.M.” is in Behrens-Schrift, a typeface that was first cast by the Rudhard’sche Gießerei in 1901. The sign can’t be any older than that. Behrens-Schrift was immensely popular in the first and second decade of the 20th century, but it’s impossible to rule out a later date. The Klipper company existed from 1858 to 1965, but you probably knew that already.
Thank you for the quick reply and great information. Do you think the 22 1/2 might be Zoll? The hat does measure ~ 22 1/2 inches which is just over 57 cm. Also what about the single letter on the inside of the sweatband? Thanks!
Best,
Steve
I have some details on Klipper (see link below). The owner told me it was from around 1905. This hat belonged to her great grandfather. The style and components of the hat seem to point to that time period.
http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/291-hch-klipper-comp-offenbach-a-m/
Best,
Steve
No Fraktur, but rather a bold Antiqua with ball terminals, as it was common in the time and period, cf. this piece of fascia lettering from Heidelberg. It could be either a ‘J’ with a spur, or bifurcated base (as in a Tuscan), or simply a minuscule ‘r’. A wild guess: Would the manufacturer have felt the need to denote the right-hand (rechts) side?
Sorry for my late reply.
Thank you for the additional great information!
If it's an "r" then it's stamped 360 degrees from the "22 1/2". I guess an "r" could denote right-hand side but not sure why that would be needed unless maybe during the sweatband construction. The sweatband construction is completed prior to installation in the hat.
Do you have any idea why "Extra Quality" was used on the liner? In most cases you see "Extra Qualität" (see below). Could this be time specific?
Rehfus & Cie. "Extra Extra Qualität"
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7267/7809332052_724542e5ab_b.jpg
I am think this hat is probably from the 1920s. Can you see anything in the printing that might point to a specific time period?
http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/20-rehfus-federleicht/#entry605
Thanks again!
-Steve
I assume the English spelling was chosen because it appears underneath the royal coat of arms of the United Kingdom.
Thank you again for the great information.
That makes sense that they would use English because to the Royal Coat of Arms of the UK.
Thanks again.
-Steve
I posted an update on my website. Thank you for the help!
(Make sure to Scroll down)
http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/291-hch-klipper-comp-offenbach-a-m/#entry1790
Best,
Steve
I hope all is well with you.
I was wondering if you could tell me anything about this script (type, dating).
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4344/36878068555_d98926355e_c.jpg
This is the hat.
http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/130-ems-hutfabrik/#entry753
Thanks!
Best,
Steve
The “Gloria” logo looks custom to me, I can’t reliably date it. The original hat shop bag (H. Moeller Marburg) is a tad more helpful in this regard: Some of the lines are set in a face known as Druckhaus-Antiqua, among other names. The schmal halbfett weight used for “Cylinder- und Klapphüte” was not added before 1910, see the typeface bio on Fonts In Use. I’d estimate that this typeface was in use at least until the 1930s.
Best, Florian
Sorry for the late reply. Thank you for the great information!
Best,
Steve
I hope all is well. I was wondering if dating is possible from the No. in the following paper label.
Hat
I believe this hat is later.
Hat
Thanks!
-Steve
The numbers themselves don’t tell my anything. But the letterforms used for “Dieses Etikett bei Nachbestellung …” are pretty characteristic. They are from a typeface that originated at Wagner & Schmidt, a company in Leipzig that produced matrices and sold them to type foundries. It was cast under two names. Gronau in Berlin had it as Weitblick-Antiqua, and Weber in Stuttgart and Schriftguss in Dresden named it Orient-Antiqua. The label can’t be any older than 1912. The typeface was in Weber’s collection at least into the 1930s (they registered the name in December 1932). It very likely wasn’t sold anymore after WWII.
Hope this helps!
Florian
Thanks!
I think both hats are from the 1950s so might be possible Mayser used old typeface.
I was asking about No. (in red) in the first paper label. It's different than the more typical No. on the second label.
I was wondering if you could tell me anything about these two (see below). They are from the same hat that came from an East German seller. I am thinking early 1900s.
Hat
http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/60-c-w-n-hutfabriken/#entry325
Thank you your assistance!
Probably King Albert of Saxony - reign 1873 - 1902 (see below)
Hat / Melone
http://germanaustrianhats.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/46-g-m-could-be-georg-miech-dresden-hutfabrik/#entry230
(scroll down)
I can't say the carton is original to the Melone.
“Bewährtes Fabrikat” looks like a style that was common in the first decade of the 1900s, plus/minus several years.
“Deponirt” uses the old spelling. This was standardized as “Deponiert” in 1901, but the change didn’t happen over night, of course. See also this resource for dating porcelain marks.
The double digit in the phone number (not pictured here, but on the linked forum page) doesn’t necessarily indicate a very early date. This really depends on the size of the place – here’s a single (!) digit number from 1925, for example.
Having you tried looking into the type of crown?
This link should display a larger photo.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47911351021_c19ee20382_b.jpg