On counting Points

I've only been here about two weeks, and counting Points is not a major issue, but:

It bothers me that Disagree deducts from your Points. You can't discuss openly without disagreeing with somebody, and it's not healthy to punish people for that.

On the other hand, I would say Abuse should deduct two points. And probably Troll as well, although the problem is people tend to play fast & loose with that term, so maybe not.

Comments

  • PabloImpallariPabloImpallari Posts: 513
    edited June 2016
    Hrant, nice to see you arround.

    I disagreed with your post because "Disagreeing" does not deducts points.
    http://typedrawers.com/discussion/16/new-feature-reactions#latest

    As of writing these lines you have 15 points, you'd have 11 deducting disagrees.
  • Wow, you're right! Strange, when I did the math I was sure the Disagree-s were being deducted... but I guess I added wrong. Oh well, nevermind then! :-)  Sometimes it's good to be wrong.

    Should I delete this thread? Assuming that's even possible.
  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 1,237
    By themselves, points are not very insightful, so I can't say I like them or agree with their presence, but I'm not going to troll, either to abuse them or to disagree with their presence, or their removal for that matter. Now, if one were to divide a person's point score by the number of posts he or she has made, that might be an interesting metric of something.
  • James PuckettJames Puckett Posts: 1,472
    I moderated this forum for over a year and I never even noticed the points tally on the profile pages until just now.

    I think the points system is intended for high-traffic forums. It makes it easy for users and moderators to glance at a profile and figure out who’s an expert and who’s a longtime troll.
  • Hrant H. PapazianHrant H. Papazian Posts: 931
    edited June 2016
    John, that's actually the main metric that came to my mind as well. Although number-of-posts is a lesser variable than number-of-characters. And some people naturally –or unnaturally– mesh better with an environment's zeitgeist, or stick to technical help which is easier to like than cultural speculation; others only post when they're sure they're being harmonious (which is a cultural loss).

    James, what's most notable here is that John's metric yields comparable numbers for James Montalbano and myself. But I'm still learning the ropes here, so hopefully I can improve.
  • Hrant H. PapazianHrant H. Papazian Posts: 931
    edited June 2016
    Other insightful metrics:
    Discussions Started / Visits (Willingness to drive discourse)
    Visits / Posts (Reading versus Writing)

    BTW what's the comment field within a profile supposed to be used for? It has one tantalizing but worrisome button, "Share"...
  • James PuckettJames Puckett Posts: 1,472
    I’ve never understood that one either.
  • Discussions Started / Visits (Willingness to drive discourse)
    Driving discourse sounds like trolling to me.
  • Hrant H. PapazianHrant H. Papazian Posts: 931
    edited June 2016
    Starting threads is more aligned with trolling than replying to them?

    BTW that metric would be better with Posts instead of Visits, sorry.
  • D. Epar tedD. Epar ted Posts: 723
    So... is it not a major issue, or do we hire Price-Waterhouse and get the metrics exactly correct...

    I say, let us vote.:)
    Anyone who doesn't vote, can't (doesn't) use flags anymore, (no points appear by their names).;)

    Everyone else can start a game of fantasy-league type advisors based on approved P-W metrics of this fine forum, you'll be famous!

    Or is it time to open another door, in a world made for more doors.
  • joeclarkjoeclark Posts: 111
    It makes it easy for users and moderators to glance at a profile and figure out who’s an expert and who’s a longtime troll.

    I suppose that makes sense if moderators view their primary duty as punishment and banishment, sure. (Just “glance at a profile.”) I certainly believe there is an impulse among Typedrawers’ moderators, half of whom are non-native speakers of English and none of whom could even be bothered to document their experience with online fora, to punish and banish.

    Also, I thought we got rid of Stewf. Sort of in a North Korea–like hostage exchange with Hrant.
  • Hrant H. PapazianHrant H. Papazian Posts: 931
    edited June 2016
    Funny.

    I'm a huge fan of good timing, and FWIW (not much I'm sure) I finally joined because of Aleme and protoType. Plus Twitter was ruining my language skills.

    From what I've seen (and I don't mean just the last two weeks...) Type Drawers has nicely outgrown its initial berserker stage, transitioning nicely via Stephen, and ending up with commendable moderators. Hey, they are letting you stay...  :-)
  • joeclark said:

    I certainly believe there is an impulse among Typedrawers’ moderators ... to punish and banish.
    What's the basis for that belief?
  • Stephen ColesStephen Coles Posts: 712
    edited June 2016
    If that is indeed their impulse, they aren't so eager to act on it. In their tenure, only one person has ever been banned, and it was only temporarily.
  • Frank has quite the picture collection.   :-)
  • Nick ShinnNick Shinn Posts: 1,193
    When I first saw the title of this thread, I thought it was some kinda BCP thing.
  • It is. Behavior Conditioning Protocols.  ;-)
  • ... and they serve no function to anyone on the moderation team.
    ... If you say so.
  • joeclarkjoeclark Posts: 111
    I certainly believe there is an impulse among Typedrawers’ moderators ... to punish and banish.
    What's the basis for that belief?
    1. An entire apparatus was set up to exclude Hrant H. Papazian, a ban only now rescinded.
    2. I’m constantly getting threatened.
  • joeclarkjoeclark Posts: 111

    Joe, frankly, you have the facts wrong.

    No, I don’t.

    Application restrictions on individuals were rescinded in October 2014. No one was banned from joining from that point on.

    All you’re saying is the practice stopped.

    You have been warned in the past that you were are in violation of the posted rules. You can call that a threat if you want, but it shouldn't be a surprise given your behavior, and it's not the experience of the vast majority of TD members. Again, very few have been warned and only one member was suspended.

    So threats do in fact occur. No one would expect “the vast majority” of members of any group to be issued warnings.

    Beloved Stewf Coles is a serial aggressor on this point, yet serially insists Typedrawers moderators did not ban Hrant H. Papazian (they did) and do not threaten members (they d0).

  • James ToddJames Todd Posts: 213
    edited December 2016
    Hrant was banned before Typedrawers had moderators. The ban was lifted long ago. Stephen has never lied about this nor hidden the truth—he wasn’t an admin or a moderator when the ban went into place.

    Stephen isn’t part of the moderation team anymore. He hasn’t been for over a year now.

    If you’re being threatened, let us know so we can deal with it.
  • It would aid transparency for TypeDrawers to add a caveat to the flag counts of its moderators indicating that it's only relatively recently been possible to flag them for misconduct.
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