Fontdue. No Paypal?
I’m really frustrated right now. I genuinely loved the Fontdue platform, but after investing a lot of time and money into building my website, I later discovered that they don’t support PayPal for client payments in the U.S.
That’s a huge setback for me and honestly has killed my motivation to keep working on the site. From my experience, most people I know here primarily use PayPal rather than the other payment options available.
Does anyone know of a simple workaround to integrate PayPal with a Fontdue site? If not, are there any alternative platforms similar to Fontdue that do support it?
Thanks!
Comments
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Without commenting on Fontdue per se…My experience is exactly opposite. Nobody cares to pay via Paypal, whereas Credit Card is the world wide business payment form (and Stripe, and Fontdue by extension, provide a lot of other payment methods, e.g. wire transfer, other locally established services). Paypal may be pretty handy for international money transfers, but in terms of e-commerce, I think you are perceiving something as a problem that is not.8
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And to comment on Fontdue per se... the entire payment flow is built around a Stripe subvendor setup, where Fontdue never has to collect or deal with any money directly. Stripe just subtracts their fee and the Fontdue percent fee from the customer payment and sends it their way, the end customer money goes straight to the foundry, which is very elegant. Implementing Paypal or any other kind of non-Stripe integration would mean Fontdue would have to implement a tooooon of money handling (collecting, splitting, royalties, world-wide payout, tax obligations on top). If I were Fontdue, never in a million years would I add Paypal "just because". People don't seem to understand how much work payment gateways are, and how much of a blessing Stripe is with handling all that behind one service and easy API, plus their subvendor setup makes it all even more perfect for this.Compare that to supporting customers that build entire websites on a platform without familiarizing themselves with the available payment options...
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My impression is that PayPal is really important. Stripe doesn't work in many countries, and many digital nomads (or nomads by the force of circumstances) can't easily open bank accounts, get cards, etc. Also, there is still some skepticism about paying with cards directly.
Some people gave up on the type business because PayPal doesn't work in their countries. I didn't explore that argument further.
I would say that what is described here as the Fontdue options is the western default point of view. (which is a legitimate business strategy, if it is a strategy and not a misconception).1 -
For over six years, I’ve been running a very successful online business (unrelated to type), and the largest portion of our customers—both domestic and international—use PayPal.
I want to be clear that this isn’t criticism of Fontdue—I really love how easy the platform is to use, how you can customize everything and their customer support is amazing. However, the limited payment options (no PayPal) are a bottleneck for growing our U.S.-based type business.
As Igor mentioned, there’s still some hesitation around paying directly with cards. On top of that, most customers aren’t willing to create a new Stripe account just to purchase fonts.
With that in mind, again, can anyone recommend alternative platforms similar to Fontdue that also support PayPal?
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I’ve run a successful type foundry for over 16 years, and we haven’t offered Paypal payments in the last 13 years or so. You absolutely do not need Paypal as a payment option to run a successful foundry.4
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Supherb said:
As Igor mentioned, there’s still some hesitation around paying directly with cards. On top of that, most customers aren’t willing to create a new Stripe account just to purchase fonts.
There is no need for the customer to create a Stripe Account.3 -
Moritz Kleinsorge said:Supherb said:
"still some hesitation around paying directly with cards" <------READ
There is no need for the customer to create a Stripe Account.I’m really glad to hear some of you are doing well without PayPal. That said, it’s worth seriously considering how many U.S.-based sales might be slipping through the cracks without it as a payment option.
Does anyone else have suggestions for a solution or an alternative platform that is easy and works well PayPal ?
TY!
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Stripe’s documentation indicates that there is a way to integrate PayPal payments into a commerce site using Stripe Connect. I’ve not tried this, and I don’t know how Fontdue is set up in this regard, but it doesn’t look intrinsically impossible to accept PayPal via Stripe.
https://docs.stripe.com/payments/paypal1 -
I reviewed the Stripe documentation and reached out to their support team. Ultimately, enabling or incorporating that option is at Fontdue’s discretion3
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That's one of the risks of relying on a third-party platform: pricing, features, and support can change at any time.0
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Igor Petrovic said:Stripe doesn't work in many countries, and many digital nomads (or nomads by the force of circumstances) can't easily open bank accounts, get cards, etc. Also, there is still some skepticism about paying with cards directly.Can you give an example, please? It sounds absolutely fictional. For customers, Stripe works nearly worldwide (or at least in the same countries as PayPal) since they simply need a payment card. It’s hard to imagine a person who needs fonts, doesn’t have access to payment cards, but does to PayPal. Do they then buy bread with PayPal, since you can’t get cash out of it without a bank account?0
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In Serbia, PayPal works, and Stripe does not. One can simply search mismatch countries.Alex Visi said:Can you give an example, please?
My comment was mainly from the foundry perspective, assuming that the type foundry can't withdraw money to their PayPal. If so, that could be a real problem.
I might be wrong, and anyone these days can easily assess the situation simply by asking AI, no need for lengthy elaborations here. As the rough indication, here is what I got from ChatGPT:
Stripe alone can work globally—but not having PayPal can absolutely cost you conversions in certain segments.
Again, it is legitimate whatever one decide it is the best business strategy, just saying that aside from the Western business zone, things can get pretty far from default.
For business, local vs abroad payments are two different categories, depending on the legislation. Separate cards are issued, with different currencies... In many countries income from abroad requires specific workarounds, etc.
For customers, they can use their cards, but if they don't want or can't for whatever reason, PayPal is the most universal service. This is a pretty dynamic world in terms of migrations, to take that just as an example.
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The (short-ish) list of countries on Stripe’s website is for sellers, but not for customers. Regarding customers, it says “you'll be able to sell to customers anywhere in the world”. In Serbia, customers can pay with regular payment cards. GPT says visa and mastercard are commonly used. Stripe also has a bunch of local cards, including Serbian DinaCard, listed for testing successful payments, so they must work as well.In Serbia, PayPal works, and Stripe does not. One can simply search mismatch countries.
Well, the topic starter has access to Fontdue, so it probably not the concern. But for sure, if the foundry itself is based in a country not supported by Stripe, that’s tough. They still need an alternative to accept card payments, which are all likely worse.My comment was mainly from the foundry perspective, assuming that the type foundry can't withdraw money to their PayPal. If so, that could be a real problem.For business, local vs abroad payments are two different categories, depending on the legislation. Separate cards are issued, with different currencies... In many countries income from abroad requires specific workarounds, etc.
Well, that’s the same regardless of payment methods, isn’t itAgain, it is legitimate whatever one decide it is the best business strategy, just saying that aside from the Western business zone, things can get pretty far from default.
This is my main point here—for customers, Stripe isn’t less accessible or more Western-centric than PayPal because its support is at least the same, but maybe better since customer don’t need to register an account with stripe. Immigrants also use regular cards, it’s hard to get away with cash only nowadays.
For customers, they can use their cards, but if they don't want or can't for whatever reason, PayPal is the most universal service. This is a pretty dynamic world in terms of migrations, to take that just as an example.
I’m not arguing against personal preferences or tough realities for foundries based in “non-included” countries though.
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I'm currently working on a redesign for my website and trying to integrate a sales feature. However, since PayPal and Stripe aren't supported in our country, I'm looking for a payment system that will inspire trust in my customers. I haven't had any luck finding one so far.
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Did you try https://cuzdan.az0
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Thanks for the suggestion, Dave! To be honest, I have a hard time trusting local companies for this. They often shut down unexpectedly, sometimes due to interventions by the Central Bank. Besides that, the tax procedures tied to them are an exhausting process, requiring tedious monthly reports.0
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So you are seeking a foreign payment processor who supports payments to Azerbaijan companies..?
TBH it might be easier to set up a company in a jurisdiction that can easily hold a USD bank account and that is supported by PayPal/Stripe/Gumroad/etc - the USA and UK might work better for you than for a resident, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands
https://stripe.com/atlas etc 1 -
@Dave Crossland
This is exactly what I am looking for! To be honest, I didn't even know this was an option.
Since my sales are already entirely to international customers, setting up a company in a jurisdiction that supports these global payment processors makes perfect sense. Before you mentioned this, I was reluctantly considering opening an account with local payment companies just because I thought I had no other choice.
Thanks a lot for the links and for pointing me in this direction. I will definitely look into Stripe Atlas and the other options!
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You should talk with a local tax accountant who is familiar with legislation in your country regarding offshore businesses, what you would be required to disclose, and how you would be taxed on foreign income.2
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Thanks for pointing this out.
Out of curiosity, I have an interesting question: If the funds generated from international sales remain in my foreign business accounts (like Mercury or Wise) and never physically get transferred to my local bank in my home country, is there still a strict need for this kind of disclosure?
Thanks again for the heads-up!
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It is going to depend on the law in your country. In many jurisdictions, it is illegal to knowingly fail to disclose income, even if that income is not locally taxable. If you incorporate a company in another jurisdiction, e.g. via Stripe’s Atlas service, then technically it is that corporation that holds the income, but there will be ownership disclosure requirements in that country, and may be ownership of foreign asset requirements in your country. It used to be the case that ownership of corporations was not necessarily disclosed, but due to efforts to crack down on money laundering and criminal/terrorist financing, a lot of countries now require banks to collect beneficial ownership information, i.e. the names of individuals who own more than a certain percentage of shares in a corporation. So if you incorporate a business in the US, your ownership of that business will be registered there, and may also need to be registered in your own country under local legisation. This is why you need to talk with an accountant or lawyer in your country to find out what disclosure is required.
Another thing I would check in your situation is whether any sanctions are in place between your country and the country in which you plan to incorporate a business or set up a bank account or payment service. Even if no such sanctions exist, you may be required to affirm that none of your income will be directed to countries that are under sanctions. That can be triggered by perceived geopolitical alignment of your country.1 -
Thank you so much for this detailed and insightful explanation!Your point about beneficial ownership and international AML regulations makes perfect sense. I will definitely sit down with a local tax professional to get the structure properly set up according to local laws.Fortunately, my country is not under any sanctions that would restrict standard digital e-commerce, but it is definitely an important geopolitical aspect to keep in mind for banking compliance.I really appreciate you taking the time to me through this!0
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Ahem 2!… https://theforge.ashler.design/0
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I would say the best approach is to have options available for your clients and to have them implemented by the best at the forge.
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I completely agree with what John said; you absolutely need tax advice from a locally licensed professional if you do international business, and you absolutely should be paying all the taxes you are required to and disclosing your beneficial ownership as needed.
Obviously owning a company offshore from where you live is strongly associated with money laundering and tax evasion, but it really does have very legitimate reasons for existing – like your situation – and given you are not seeking to do bad things, and work to avoid inadvertently doing bad things (by fully reporting/disclosing what you are doing, following professional licensed advice), I think its worth exploring this option.
What I mean by "your situation", my point with all this, isn't to suggest avoiding taxes or disclosures, it is to access services internationally that you can't locally, and accessing them may cost you more than if you did business just locally without access to them.
To your question, as John mentioned, generally yes, I think there is now a strict need for this kind of disclosure, because since that book was published in 2011, and especially after the Panama Papers put a spotlight on it, there has been a globally coordinated AML effort. Not enough, imo, but that is the trend and if your country is lax today, I would expect that it will eventually become not lax, and you don't want to end up on the wrong side of history with this...
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Regarding disclosure, this is also a requirement with services like Stripe that process payments from online commerce, with the added frustration that unlike a traditional bank you can’t just take your papers of incorporation and directory of officers in to your local branch and show them to an accoount manager. Companies like Stripe try to automate this process by having you upload scans of relevant papers that they then use AI to check and confirm information, which doesn’t always work. It took us several weeks and an eventual conversation with a human being to get our account approved.1
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Thank you both for the incredibly detailed and practical advice!Dave, I really appreciate you understanding the exact nuance of my situation. My goal is not to evade taxes, but simply to access international payment infrastructure that isn't available locally. Your points about the global shift towards stricter AML tracking and the historical context of the Panama Papers make perfect sense. To be on the safe side, I will be working with a local licensed tax professional.John, thanks for the heads-up regarding Stripe's verification process. It is certainly frustrating when automated AI checks turn into a bottleneck. I applied to set up the LLC directly through Stripe Atlas. I have passed the first two stages and am currently in the final stage, so I hope their internal integration makes the verification of the formation documents a bit smoother. However, I will keep my expectations realistic, and if the automated system gets stuck, I will be fully prepared to reach out to human support immediately.Your combined guidance has been incredibly helpful to me in setting up this structure. Thanks again!1
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