Pricing a limited font?

Tofu Type Foundry · April 15

Hi all! I’m looking for some advice for a possible commission I received. The client requires a custom typeface for a sports brand that will primarily be used on jerseys and team branding. The typeface is limited to English uppercase, lining figures, and some additional basic punctuation like /period and /hyphen.

This is my first commission request so I’m wondering how to calculate an estimate? I assume a single upfront fee is more preferred than charging an hourly rate? (with additional costs to incur if the scope increases.) It also seems reasonable that licensing cost would differ if exclusively/timed exclusively is not a factor—but how do you calculate that value?

John Hudson · April 15

Who will own the design? Does the client want to own it, or might they be content with a period of exclusive use? Do you think the design might have future value, e.g. if you were to adapt it to additional weights and styles, and more languages?

When calculating a total price, you should always price your labour and the rights separately. Calculate your labour as accurately as you can based on how much time you think the work will take, ensuring that you are earning a living wage. Estimate the value of the rights based on whether the client wants to own the fonts or whether you will retain rights and, if the latter, whether you think the design is something you will reasonably be able to benefit from financially in future.

Basically, the pricing of the rights will depend on what you are giving away to the client versus what you retain for yourself, but only if what you retain is actually worth something to you or to anyone other than this one client.

If the client wants to negotiate on the price, you only ever negotiate on the rights, never on the cost of the labour. So you can haggle over the pricing of the rights, or you can suggest different kinds of rights e.g. 3-year exclusive use, renewable for a later fee, rather than the client owning the rights, or you can negotiate a payment schedule to enable the client to pay over time for the rights. All that can be flexible. The important thing is that you are not doing the work for less than a living wage, and you are not giving away valuable rights for nothing.

harborb · April 15

@John Hudson pretty much covered the basics of the ideology. very well said. From my perspective most clients assume they will be getting full ownership so I veeeeeery rarely bring up licensing options and factor in full ownership into my original quotes.

that character set is quite limited and especially bing only uppercase the characters are more simple and quicker to draw than lowers. if someone came to me with that brief It would take me a few days to design so I would charge like $3000. and have a strict timeline of a week. But that is just my own philosophy. I like to give the client super tight very strict timelines to limit useless arbitrary rounds of revision.

Thomas Phinney · April 15

The other thing I want to mention is, my own experience is that I am VERY good at UNDERestimating the time something will take me, when it comes to type design. In fact, in my experience, the overwhelming majority of type designers underestimate the time/labor, but most especially people early in their careers.

BUT, you can compensate for this! When it comes to the part where you are estimating labor time, do what seems like a reasonable estimate, and then multiply by something else to make up for this. Double or 1.5 times are not crazy multipliers for this.

Similarly, set the hourly part of the estimate to something that you would be genuinely happy with, not merely ok.

This way, when things go to heck, either because of one’s own poor estimates, or errors, or the client being a nightmare, you are still not too badly off.

JoyceKetterer · April 16

@Tofu Type Foundryn I've answered this question in a few other threads. I'm tired and busy so don't have the energy to type it all out again or find a link but I promise you it is there if you go looking. I mostly agree with @John Hudson, with a few additions.

@Eben Sorkin and I designed a pretty great method for scoping. Every year we talk about pitching it as a lecture to the various conferences but something gets in the way. If ten are interested I'm willing to host a webinar.

Tofu Type Foundry · April 16

Thanks for the detailed response @John Hudson! You bring up some great points—especially about pricing the labour cost separate from the licensing fee. It’s hard to speak on the future value of the design but it could have market potential with some slight modifications. I’ll keep that in mind!

Figuring out a base cost for the labour is more straightforward than the licensing cost. What factors should one consider when a larger institution wants to license a typeface? I know font licensing is a complex beast and this question will probably have different answers based on who answers it, but it seems difficult to calculate a fee without knowing what to consider.

Is a three-year exclusive licence with possibility for renewable for a later fee the industry norm? Three years of exclusivity has been mentioned in a few forum discussions here on TD.

Tofu Type Foundry · April 16

@harborb Thanks for the reply!

“most clients assume they will be getting full ownership so I veeeeeery rarely bring up licensing options and factor in full ownership into my original quotes.”

Are you referring to the ownership of the intellectual property/design of the typeface? Or just the exclusive usage?

I appreciate you sharing a price estimate! Really helps to hear what others would charge. The timeline advice is great as well.

Tofu Type Foundry · April 16

Thanks for the reply @Thomas Phinney! Underestimating time is definitely a concern I have with my first commision. 2x and 1.5x multipliers are similar to what I use when estimating graphic design work; I see the same problem/solution exists in type design too

Similarly, set the hourly part of the estimate to something that you would be genuinely happy with, not merely ok.

Great point. If I’m going to commit time and energy towards a job it shouldn’t end up feeling like a chore.

Tofu Type Foundry · April 16

Hi @JoyceKetterer! Thanks for recommending that. I’ll do some digging in the archives.

I’m curious about your method for scoping—hopefully it can be presented at a conference or webinar. Do you think it could be useful for foundries that aren’t as big as Darden?

John Hudson · April 16

I tend to calculate the rights licensing aspect of a commission by applying a multiplier to the labour cost, on the basis that the size of a font project often relates to its value. How large the multiplier is depends on what rights the client wants and also on the nature of the client and the project, e.g. less for a non-profit, more for a branding agency.

JoyceKetterer · April 16

@Tofu Type Foundry I think it would be useful for everyone. Also, we're small.

Matthew Smith · April 18

You may also find Troy Leinster’s “How to price a custom typeface” useful.

John Hudson · April 18

Troy’s spreadsheet template approach is similar to mine. I also have a freely available template, which I created for a TypeWknd online tutorial a few years ago.

I wrote an introduction for clients on commissioning custom fonts, which may also be useful. It talks about everything except $ pricing.

Pricing a limited font?

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