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  • Ray LarabieRay Larabie Posts: 1,120
    And just like that, 10,000 new foundries were registered on MyFonts.
  • Nick ShinnNick Shinn Posts: 1,767
    “In future, everyone will have their own font.”
    IIRC, Roger Black said that 30 years ago.
  • And just like that, 10,000 new foundries were registered on MyFonts.

    And they were all casual script fonts.
  • And they were all casual script fonts.
    Except for the ones that were "clean, minimalist sans serifs".
     
  • The next panel might well have read: "And if you do, the world will have no choice but to ignore you."
  • Vasil StanevVasil Stanev Posts: 659
    edited September 23
    In my opinion:
    The entrance of amateurs into an industry often leads to more work for the professionals that are willing to adapt to repairing the laymen's subpar products (this means bad Beziers, bad licensing and bad coding), while the ones unwilling to adapt and wanting to remain in the old playing field with the newcomers often bemoan the olden days and are in want.

    I put the stress om "coding", because, while everybody with a visual editor software thinks they are a designer, most people wouldn't dream of proclaiming themselves programmers.

    I had many instances when I have gotten all kinds of abysmal design files (Photoshop, InDesign, FontLab, and many more) that required my professional input and the according payment. The guy with the cheaper fee that got the client in the pickle just proved for an n-th time that being penny wise means pound foolish. Years later, me and most of these clients are still working together, while the amateurs can still be seen whining on the internet about opression and how the game is rigged.
  • edited September 23
    You are right, Mark. On the other hand, it is true that some technical aspects have become more and more complex, specially if you want to tackle some non-latin script, or even latin script with some language-specific need (the dotless and dotted i in Turkish, the geminated L in Catalan, the jacute in Dutch, the capital Eszett in German, and so on). Or perhaps it is just because we are more aware of these needs now than, say, fifteen years ago. ¶ That said, it is true that I am designing typefaces because the computer allows me to do it. Otherwise, I’d be just a graphic designer using other people’s photosetting fonts. Or even Letraset transfer letters, I guess.
  • ..."the ones unwilling to adapt and wanting to remain in the old playing field with the newcomers often bemoan the olden days and are in want."

    Perhaps a little clarification is in order here. When I quoted that song title "Those were the days my friend", I was not implying I bemoaned the absence of laboriously filling in outlined letters on paper using ink, dip pens and rapidographs. For sure the personal computer made that activity infinitely easier —and faster! I'm so blessed for that. With the pivotal change over three decades ago I adapted, went back to school and became computer proficient in design software. One such, FontLab, was a steep learning curve; but as such I believe I now have the best of both worlds —traditional and digital.

    I was bemoaning the fact that there seems to have been something (intangible) lost: e.g. very few involved with typography today seem to passionately care anymore about good letterform spacing. Back then Ed used to say something like "just because you have access to a computer doesn't make you a good designer". With respect to quality of letterform shapes, there is too much reliance on the beziers to get it right for you. Very little reliance on developing a sharp eye. There should be a happy marriage between the two. With high resolution screens you run the risk of getting lazy, not caring to make printouts anymore with the purpose of scrutinizing shapes etc., thinking that "it's good to go". He used to say to me "John it's all about getting a good shape". There was a certain passion there. It's impossible for me to "knock out" a high quality font in a month!

  • "The tools we have now are amazing compared to what was available when I was first getting fonts published in the '90s, to say nothing of my attempts before it was possible to make fonts on a personal computer. Making fonts has become easier and easier. This inevitably means more and more people making fonts. None of us would be here talking about it if that weren't the case. We are among those people.

    So much in agreement, Mark. In the mid 80s at PLINC we acquired Ikarus and immediately embraced it for its inherent power and potential. Unfortunately our slow transition from photographic to digital spelled the end.

  • I'm an amateur.
    If this site is reserved to professionals criticizing amateurs then, say it loud and I'll leave this forum.
    I personnaly think if you are real, true, professional professionals, you are not in danger because of the hobbyists.
    And luckily, some of the amateurs are real artists which is not always the case of some "professionals". :)
    I don't think we're putting down amateurs that have the desire to become better at type design, quite the opposite. I myself am forever learning, and am certainly not up there with a lot of the real experts here. But I have received nothing but help and encouragement whenever I've asked a sincere question. 

    What rankles is that the broader font-consuming public is being fed sub-standard products by the cartload, and aren't able to discern between professional and amateur work. In the past, it was already hard to compete with "free", but at least quality gave an edge with an educated customer. That seems to have changed, which is impacting sales, which leads to more and more fonts being put out to compensate, which makes it harder for your product to stand out, etc. etc.  It all seems very similar to the big foundry crisis at the end of the 19th century that led to the establishment of the type trust. Only ours isn't called ATF...


  • Paul MillerPaul Miller Posts: 272
    edited October 2
    I'm an amateur.
    If this site is reserved to professionals criticizing amateurs then, say it loud and I'll leave this forum.
    I personnaly think if you are real, true, professional professionals, you are not in danger because of the hobbyists.
    And luckily, some of the amateurs are real artists which is not always the case of some "professionals". :)
    The situation is a lot more complex than this.
    To understand what is going on you must realise that the forum is made up of two distinct groups.  I will call these the 'core' group and the 'others'.  The 'core' group are professionals who rely on selling typefaces for their livelihood, on the whole the core group have a very high level of knowledge and experience, the 'others' are amateurs and people who are just interested in type design, this group has various levels of knowledge and experience.
    If you are a newbie at type design and ask a question on the forum you will get really good and helpful advice from the core group.  If you are a type professional and you ask a question on the forum you will get really good and helpful advice from the core group.
    If you are someone who has some experience with type design (an artist) but is not perceived as being a type professional, i.e. someone who produces free typefaces then you will get very little help from the core group.
    So to answer your question the amount of help you will get depends on how the core group perceives you.  I think there is a certain level of disdain for those who use their talents to produce free fonts, but only if they are good at it.
    I think the reason for this is that newbies tend to ask simple questions.  Also the newbies aren't seen as being a threat.  The more complex questions come from those with more knowledge and experience, that is from the core group and the artists and whilst the core group doesn't mind helping each other, after all they may need help themselves in the future, they don't like spending their time giving critiques or answering the questions of someone who is going to release their typeface for free.
    P.S. please excuse the tardiness of the reply, since I left this forum I don't check it very often.
    Please see this thread for more details, indeed it was this thread which was the straw that broke the camel's back when it came to me deciding to leave this forum.
  • The title of this forum is:


    "TypeDrawers

    A discussion forum for professionals and enthusiasts in the fields of typeface design, lettering, and typography."

    Paul Miller said:  "..the forum is made up of two distinct groups.  I will call these the 'core' group and the 'others'."

    I asked to say it loud and he did it.
    And it seems his opinion is shared largely by "the core".

    Sorry if I misunderstood the title !

    I don't like to be considered as "the other" or "the stranger". Neither here nor anywhere.

    So, I'll do as I planned, I'll leave this forum to "the core".
  • Thomas PhinneyThomas Phinney Posts: 2,130
    I think the disdain for producers of free typefaces is largely in the past….

    But now we're in a world where several free typefaces are released daily; they're part of the environment.…
    The problem isn't free typeface designers, it's all typeface designers.

    Let's bury this anti-free-font-maker sentiment and hate all typeface designers equally.
    I was totally with you, Ray, right up to that very last sentence! Yes, I know you were just trying to be funny, and in general you are welcoming and supportive.   :)

    But negativity and feeling “other” or like an outsider has often driven interested people away from the forum, including this week. So: let’s not even joke about it—at least not in a way that makes it sound like it might be an acceptable norm here!
  • Thank you Mark, Ray and Thomas !  :)

    Thank you for these opinions on the matter !
    We can see now that some experienced members do not share this bad feeling about enthousiasts and amateurs.
    Just to read them, I'll stay on the forum with "the others" ;)
  • Vasil StanevVasil Stanev Posts: 659
    edited October 3
    Do you guys have to read so much into it. :D All I meant was "people without actual skill that devalue the field", but this is somewhat true to a multitude of fields outside type and design in general. 
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