I have thought about this for a long time, but I have not reached a solution that fully satsifies me. So, as I am in the process of making final decisions with font naming, I wished to ask for opinions, especially to the more experts on the technical and production sides.
The fields to consider:
Family name / Style name / Full name / Postscript / Style group
So far, the two prominent naming conventions that seems to be in use are as follows.
I will use "Bold" as an example for the weight.
1a. San Francisco (Apple)
Here, since the intended use for the typeface is for screen and print, the family manages with two optical sizes, respectively named "Text" and "Display".
This convention does not satisfy me because, while one can consider the relative perception of digital fonts which can be used onscreen (but also the use we can now make directly on printed billboards, large posters, etc.), I would prefer the names to be immediately recognizable in their optical hierarchy, be it numerical (12, 24, 36 etc.) or descriptive (Small, Medium, Large, etc.).
Plus, it does not allow much optical sizes. If I wish to have, say, two caption sizes (5pt, 6pt), three text sizes (8pt, 10pt, 12pt) and so on, I don’t know how I could name them.
San Francisco Text / Bold / San Francisco Text Bold / SanFranciscoText-Bold / San Francisco Text
1b. Adobe Jenson Pro optical (Adobe)
A variation of the above criteria. This kind of naming convention, widely adopted has been the earliest used, by Adobe and then many others (using intermediate categories like "Subhead", or further expansions like "Caption" or "Micro"). Here the main difference lies in the fact that the optical size is specified within the style name, and not in the family name.
As above it does not satisfy me much as it does not allow for precise optical sizes. If I wish to have, say, two caption sizes (5pt, 6pt), three text sizes (8pt, 10pt, 12pt) and so on, I also don’t know how I could name them.
Adobe Jenson Pro / Bold Caption / Adobe Jenson Pro Bold Caption / AJensonPro-BoldCapt / Adobe Jenson Pro Capt
The family follows the traditional numerical value (in points) scheme, which includes the actual intended optical size for printing in the Family name. I think this is also the convention used at the time for ITC Bodoni, and more recently by Synthview Operetta.
I like this solution, but not the fact that this way each optical series ends up being a family of its own.
Paperback 12 / Bold / Paperback 12 Bold / Paperback12-Bold / Paperback 12 Roman
Given the two examples, an idea which occurred to me, and that could be immediately recognizable by non-designers and non-professionals, would be to use the size codes used in clothing, like:
extra extra small (XXS)
extra small (XS)
small (S)
medium (M)
large (L)
extra large (XL)
extra extra large (XXL)
extra extra extra large (3XL)
and so on.
These could be conveniently grouped to represent a caption range, a text range, subhead and a display ranges (e.g. XXS to S and so on).
So I was thinking of something like:
De Vinne M / Bold / De Vinne M Bold / DeVinne-M-Bold / De Vinne M Roman
De Vinne XL / Bold / De Vinne XL Bold / DeVinne-XL-Bold / De Vinne XL Roman
or, more descriptively, using both the more "universal" cloth size coding and the respective point size for print:
De Vinne M 12 / Bold / De Vinne M 12 Bold / DeVinne-M12-Bold / De Vinne M 12 Roman
De Vinne XL 60 / Bold / De Vinne XL 60 Bold / DeVinne-XL60-Bold / De Vinne XL 60 Roman
Also, could something like this work?
De Vinne / Bold / De Vinne 12 Bold / DeVinne-12-Bold / 12Bold
De Vinne / Bold / De Vinne 60 Bold / DeVinne-60-Bold / 60Bold
I am still very undecided.
Thanks everyone in advance for your expertise and opinions!
Comments
If you really have two separate fonts exactly for 10 and 12 pt, calling it just that seems the only way. But otherwise I personally feel like giving the exact point size values can make people think it’s wrong to use them for other sizes, even if it works well.
Don’t see anything wrong with clothes sizes and descriptive names like Display, Text, Subtitle, Title etc. Clear, not limiting, looks and reads nice, easier to remember than numbers or letters (“it’s Subtitle” vs “was it 5 or 4? maybe try 6”). If you have more options than you can describe with words, that might be unnecessarily hard to market.
yes, but it’s not a matter of «having more options than you can describe with words», rather to have names for the specific number of optical sizes, for use in print. And yes, when they are thought chiefly for printed sizes, I do wish to make people realize it’s not ideal to use them for other sizes, as their features are for the intended sizes (especially optical corrections and inktraps), but no one prevents other uses, as even in phototypesetting days one could want to enlarge a small print caption sized text to achieve a graphic effect.
But considered I might conceive optical sizes not entirely dependent on a printed use logic, I was trying to find a satisfying solution which would illustrate that in this case the size indication has an internal logic which is relative to the overall dimension/environment of use (not just the printed page).
I would favor the numeric point sizes for historical revivals, as that’s what my optical masters, based on original sizes, are addressing but since one can also use them on screen I was wondering whether relative naming could work, but I do not find satisfying generic names, even if they sound "friendly", when they do not allow me to have enough precision.
If I have three text-range size masters, for 8, 10 and 12pt (maybe even 14pt), aside from the numeric values, how would you call them?
In a current project, for masters we are using S(mall) M(edium) L(arge) XL (ExtraLarge), but for instances, numeric designations such as 24.
It definitely helps to speak with someone so familiar with Fontlab, as I am a bit confused by the apparent complexity of having Axes, Masters and Instances and I was wondering where it’s important to keep the names consistent (as I would not want to deal with it afterwards).
But if you avoid numeric or code labels, how would you proceed with a number of optical masters (as traditionally in lead, say at least a selection between 6 and 72 point size)?
So for example, I might make a simple sans serif variable font with just a weight axis. It has three masters: Thin, Regular and ExtraBlack. But it has nine defined instances corresponding to not just those three weights, but a bunch in between (all the standard CSS weight stops, as it happens).
I could have done that same variable font with just two masters, Thin and ExtraBlack. But for this imaginary design, I wanted to have more control and fine tune the regular, allowing the Regular to be lower contrast, compared to what I would have achieved with just two masters at Thin and ExtraBlack.
more or less, numeric values indeed seem the best solution for me.
@Thomas Phinney, can I ask you if such a solution
De Vinne / Bold / De Vinne 12 Bold / DeVinne-12-Bold / 12Bold
De Vinne / Bold / De Vinne 60 Bold / DeVinne-60-Bold / 60Bold
can work on the technical side? I mean specifying both the optical size and the weight in the second field (instead of the family name). Or is it better to call the sets "De Vinne 12", "De Vinne 60" etc.?
That said, I am guessing your fourth field (DeVinne-12-Bold) is the PostScript FontName, and it seems weird to me that it has two hyphens. The hyphen should be after the family name, only.
Your fifth field has no spaces, but the only name that needs to be without spaces is the aforementioned PostScript FontName, so this seems odd to me.
De Vinne / 12Bold / De Vinne 12Bold / DeVinne-12Bold / 12Roman
De Vinne / 60Bold / De Vinne 60Bold / DeVinne-60Bold / 60Roman
as I specified in the beginning of the thread, these are the fields:
Family name / Style name / Full name / Postscript / Style group
My question was whether it could work using both the optical size and the weight nomenclature in the Style name, so you would have a single De Vinne Family with many styles. The alternative would be as follows, with the optical size in the Family name (and thus having a family for each optical size):
De Vinne 12 / Bold / De Vinne 12 Bold / DeVinne12-Bold / Roman
De Vinne 60 / Bold / De Vinne 60 Bold / DeVinne60-Bold / Roman
Yes, that was my rationale too. And I agree with Rui that, as long as we stray away from use in books and on paper, if we have to adopt descriptive names but relative to size, this would be a good solution (also aesthetically/economically in terms of name space).
I prefer a XS/S/M/L/XL rather than, say Micro/Caption/Text/Subhead/Headline.
But for my current project related to historical revivals, I’ll probably go with precise lead point sizes.
If I were setting up an FL7 source for a 12pt opsz bold master, I would probably do it like this:
The 'Family name' is the name ID 16 overall family name. The 'Style group' is the name ID 1 family name for the 4-style RIBBI family.
According to the above convention, I've set two styles (Text Bold and Display Bold) of San Francisco as follows and installed both. Windows only sees one style (open image in a new tab):
The SF Pro Text style will appear only if you uninstall the SF Pro Display style.
Claudio Piccinini said: This could work:
nameID 2: Bold
nameID 4: De Vinne 12 Bold
nameID 6: DeVinne12-Bold
nameID 16: De Vinne 12
nameID 17: Bold
If you want to group them as a single superfamily, change nameIDs 16 and 17 (and nameID 6 if you want):
nameID 2: Bold
nameID 4: De Vinne 12 Bold
nameID 6: DeVinne-12Bold
nameID 16: De Vinne
nameID 17: 12 Bold
nameID 2: Regular
nameID 4: De Vinne 12 Black
nameID 6: DeVinne12-Black
nameID 16: De Vinne 12
nameID 17: Black
Anyway, San Francisco is not a good reference for naming, unless you want to cut off Windows users:
Cesare's suggestions dive deeper but I think I must have to study! :-(
@Stephen Coles: I agree, I might end up with the clothing-sizes-like solution.
Although this continues to call into question whether we are actually designing for specific print sizes, or if we are trying a flexible approach with an internal logic (small for small text on screen, text size for the average reading text on screen, etc.) but this becomes vague. I mean that if I am designing an optical size with attention on how it might render at an actual, physical size, I can’t accurately take into account its behavior in similar "small sizes" onscreen. Or, if we are reasoning relatively, in small text but on a billboard.
This is relevant to me, as it is something which always frustrated me with digital scalable type, as I realized how beautiful, fitting and appropriate were size-specific designs in hot metal (when printed). I do not mean anything "esoteric" or "for the type specialist", rather a very simple consideration occurs to me: if a user enlarges a design with adjustments, inktraps et al., which is conceived for, say, a 5pt size, it will not look so great when printed in 72pt size (or used onscreen in similar fashion).
I will think about this a bit more…
This problem occurs both with clients that aren't designers, and when you have to interact with web developers that aren't well versed in typography.
The ambiguity allows a designer to "break the rules" without the name of the font working against their design decisions. I will sometimes style a "micro", "caption", or "6pt" font really big to accentuate its crude qualities. If that makes its way into a style guide, it can be really confusing to non-designers.
If I design a typeface for a specific point size, or with specific qualities, I take into account elements and develop its design according to the design goal.
By manipulating things not intended, you can be creative, but at the same time you do not encourage recognizing specific qualities, individual qualities, proportions, relationships among elements.
I thought my premises in asking the questions were clear, otherwise I would not have even mentioned the naming following the lead sizes.