Hook styles on Ƙ Ƴ ƴ

Kent Lew

This is probably directed mostly to @Denis Moyogo Jacquerye, but I’m posting it publicly for the benefit of all and in case there are others with direct experience with West African language communities who might also have insights.

There appear to be two different prevailing approaches to the hook on the ƘƳƴ (and Ⱳⱳ) used in some African languages, especially in sans-serif designs.

One style is to have only a slight hook on the diagonal. This is often accompanied by a raised arm in the lowercase ƴ, and sometimes a little lift to the capital arms as well. (In a serif design, there will usually be a terminal treatment akin to that of lowercase c.)

The other style is to have a fully curved hook, usually at the cap- or x-height, though sometimes also raised in the lowercase. (In a serif design, the terminal may or may not echo other terminals as much.)

I’m interested in gaining any insights into the connotations or associations that the different styles might have for relevant language communities — e.g. Is one style more familiar or considered more readable than the other? Is one viewed as more formal/informal? Is one or the other more associated with or more appropriate for a particular design style or text vs. display use? etc.

Obviously, each presents its own challenges in terms of fitting and managing weight & stylistic harmony, etc. While deciding which to pursue, I’m interested to know what functional, cultural, or user-acceptance ramifications might also be factored in.

Igor Freiberger

I chose a closed hook to avoid confusion because an open form could be seem as an ornamental finish. Due to the lack of information, I included two heights for W and Y with hook. WIP:

Denis Moyogo Jacquerye

@Kent Lew Both forms seem to work well in your examples.

The fully curved form can be easier to distinguish at smaller sizes, but it’s true that it works better with serif styles.

Generally it may be helpful to see how salient the hooks are on other hooked letters Ɓ ɓ Ɗ ɗ Ƈ ƈ Ɗ ɗ Ɠ ɠ Ɦ ɦ Ƥ ƥ Ƭ ƭ or even on J j and others like Ŋ ŋ Ɲ ɲ. While we may be used to J having its hook extend below the baseline or fill a portion of the space left of the stem, we may not be used to see that with hooks above so it may feel odd. I don’t think we should shy away from salient hooks above, but they don’t always feel like the best option. Igor’s design seems to be a good compromise between the two.

One can also adjust the diagonal stem of Ƙ Ⱳ ⱳ Ƴ ƴ and start the curve earlier, for example like in Kigelia.

Kent Lew

@Denis Moyogo Jacquerye Thanks for your comments. Thanks also for the pointer to Kigelia. That design has the benefit of contrasted strokes, which relieves some of the pressure on the diagonal hooks, in terms of managing excess weight.

One of the design conceits of my project is that terminals are constrained to either vertical or horizontal endings. This tends to put limits the room to maneuver in the compromise space in-between.

Since you asked, here is the range of hook treatments:

The open diagonal hooks reference the ascender hooks; whereas the fully curved treatment echoes the horizontal hooks of ƁƊƤ et al.

As you accurately point out: the more salient treatment of hooks is further outside my western Latin comfort zone. My initial inclination was the more open treatment, which harmonizes more obviously in my English-accustomed eyes.

But I have grown concerned about the subtlety of the uppercase ƘⱲƳ in running text proofs. (Less so with the lowercase ⱳƴ, since the raised arm signals quite well.)

FWIW, I did explore a “hard” treatment of fully curved hooks, drawing more explicitly on the horizontal capital hooks, which mitigates the weakness at the top of the arms, especially in the heavier weights:

But I had rejected this direction as probably too unconventional and disjointed.

However, you’ve confirmed my instinct to continue striving to find a workable solution for more salient hooks (at least in the case of the capitals). So thanks for that.

Kent Lew

(It’s really disconcerting that the Times New Roman fallback font that I see displays abjectly incorrect forms for Ƙ and Ƴ. 😖)

Denis Moyogo Jacquerye

Oddly enough the metal Times New Roman had the adequate form for Ƙ:

 

The mirrored Ƴ was used in the fonts used in the Unicode charts up to version 5.0 (see https://www.unicode.org/L2/L2004/04399-y-hook-defect-02n3768.pdf).

John Hudson

I recall someone at Microsoft querying my design of hooked-Y with the hook on the right, on the basis that it was different from TNR and the Unicode chart.

[Are you able to edit that link to remove the closing parenthesis?]