Suggest modulated sans serif

Mithil Mogare

I am working on the one of branding project and it required a modulated sans serif typeface like optima which can work as a body and display typeface. Please suggest some options.
The font can be open source or exclusive licensed.

Christian Thalmann

Ysabeau? (If lightly modulated is OK?)

Kent Lew

I’ve always admired Cyrus Highsmith’s Amira. Highsmith fonts always have a lot of “flavor”, though. Not sure how much your brand can accommodate.

(Bonus if your client is a multi-national, or has such aspirations: Amira 2 now has extensive language/script support.)

Miles Newlyn

What's wrong with Optima?

George Tulloch

There is also Carl Crossgrove's Beorcana. (Sorry – I can't get the hang of providing a link. It's available at MyFonts.)

PabloImpallari

This 2 are display only and don't have a text companion, but maybe you wanna have a look at them:
- Young Finesse by Doyald Young
- Dorothea by Philip Bouwsma

John Hudson

Skeena?

Craig Eliason

Self-interestedly I'd suggest Cuttlefish Optimistic from Teeline Fonts.

Nick Shinn

My Brown is a modulated semi-condensed neo-grotesque.

Mithil Mogare

Miles Newlyn said:

What's wrong with Optima?

Overused

Thomas Phinney

Can somebody define “modulated” in this context?
Whatever it is, I don’t feel like all the suggested fonts have it in common.

I initially assumed it meant contrast between thick and thin strokes. But clearly some people have a different idea.

Nick Shinn

Modulation: a subtle effect applied throughout a typeface.
As the amount of contrast in Optima is quite evident, but not its concave bowing of straight edges, I didn’t consider the contrast to be modulation—rather, its lack of straight lines, which is a key identifier of the design, is modulation.

Is there another name for this concave bowing, which is quite like the opposite of “softening,” other than optimazation?

John Hudson

Modulation: a subtle effect applied throughout a typeface.

The term modulation does not imply subtlety—modulation may be subtle or extreme—, but does imply variation, i.e. it isn’t just any effect but an effect that varies some aspect of a thing. Hence the application of the term in music and electronics, referring to variations of pitch or amplitude. Stroke weight modulation is the most common kind of modulation in type design, hence my interpretation of the original request.

Nick Shinn

However, in music modulation is usually between closely related keys.
That is one example of its subtlety.

But what did the OP mean?

Thomas Phinney

I was thinking of stroke weight modulation as well. But very curious what OP meant.

Kent Lew

I took the OP to mean “looks kinda like Optima”, however one might interpret that.

John Hudson

However, in music modulation is usually between closely related keys.
That is one example of its subtlety.

Often, yes, tonic modulation in music is deliberately made smooth by modulating between keys with common chords, but there is nothing in the concept of modulation that requires that ‘subtlety’: it is simply a decision about the kinds of music that people have chosen to make. There are examples of ‘extreme modulation’, both in terms abrubt key changes and in rapid progression between related keys to very quickly arrive at an harmonically remote key.

We shouldn’t confuse a concept with the way in which it is applied in a particular instance. Modulation is variation, and when talking about modulation of stroke weight in type design, we can point to examples of both subtle modulation and extreme modulation, as well as very large numbers of typefaces with moderate modulation.



So there is indeed a question about what the original poster meant by ‘modulated sans serif’, but I think that question is ‘How much modulation?’

Nick Shinn

@John Hudson

We shouldn’t confuse a concept with the way in which it is applied in a particular instance.

Without getting into Barthesian territory, we may say that every typeface exhibits many kinds and degrees of modulation applied to the basic character shapes, and type drawers are thus alphabet modulators. But each typeface favours some kinds of modulation more than others. 

I guessed Mithil referred to the concave bowing of Optima’s outlines, which is its most unusual modulation, a signature feature, there being more sans serif typefaces with pronounced stroke contrast.

Also, as the request was that the modulation work as both body and display, I assumed that the Optima reference meant a complexity of rendering (“organic”) apparent at display size, rather than stroke contrast apparent at all sizes.

BTW, that’s a clever size distinction in Skeena—I’ve not seen that before! 

John Hudson

I guessed Mithil referred to the concave bowing of Optima’s outlines, which is its most unusual modulation, a signature feature, there being more sans serif typefaces with pronounced stroke contrast.

I didn’t think to interpret Mithil’s request in that way because I don’t think of Optima’s concave bows as ‘modulation’, because it is such a consistent design feature across the typeface. Stroke weight variation is an obvious case of modulation because it involves variation between thinner and thicker strokes within a design: the stroke weight is modulated. If the stroke weight were optically uniform, we wouldn’t say it is modulated; we would say it is consistent. If Optima involved a mix of straight and bowed edges, then we might call that a form of modulation, but if the edges are all bowed, then we would say this feature is consistent and unmodulated.

Nick Shinn

To refine what I meant by “bowing:”

The modulating agency of Optima might be termed minting, applied to a medium-contrast sans serif, i.e. an effect that both pre-empts the loss of sharpness in small text sizes, and captures some of the chiselled form of the ancient letters from which it is derived. It is not “optically uniform” as can be seen from the nuances that Zapf included, such as the difference in the top and bottom terminals of /c. Note also how the flaring is more pronounced on the thin terminals of /S than on those of /T. That’s modulation.

However, one might say that the goal is in fact “optical” uniformity, in the sense that we now use optical to describe adjustments made to size, kerning etc., to provide the illusion of uniformity.

Thomas Phinney

I don’t think Optima had apparent uniformity as a goal; it very much has deliberate and visible thick/thin contrast.

John Hudson

Note also how the flaring is more pronounced on the thin terminals of /S than on those of /T. That’s modulation.

Yes, there is modulation in the amount of flaring/bowing here and there. That still doesn’t mean that modulation = ‘a subtle effect applied throughout a typeface’. Modulation is always variation in some aspect, and a) modulation doesn’t have to be subtle and b) not every effect applied throughout a typeface involves modulation.

Mithil Mogare

My context for the Modulation is the contrast between thick and thin stroke, it does not refer to concavity of straight strokes. Bodoni/caslon is modulated with serifs.
I feel modulated sans have umbilical cord with serif fonts (except slab serif).

John Butler

Rotis Semi Sans comes to mind. It might be regarded as overused in Europe, but less so over here. FF Sari is also a personal favorite of mine. Both might be too stylized for your intended use compared to Optima. Also Young Finesse by Doyald Young.

Jens Kutilek

Maybe LucasFonts’ Koning fits the bill.
(Disclaimer: I work for LucasFonts)

Alanna Munro

Stornoway has a contrast axis so you can control the level of modulation and it's definitely not overused because I released it last week 😅