Seeking Sans-Serif Alternative to Oregon LDO with Better Diacritic Support for Song Titles

abrink

Context:
I am developing a website and associated app where users can browse, modify, and print songs. Some songs require a license to be used, but all songs are visible to users.

Current Setup:

• We are using Oregon LDO for the song titles to ensure the printouts look professional.
• For song lyrics, we are using Times New Roman, which provides sufficient diacritic and symbol support for the languages we need.

Problem:
We are facing issues with Oregon LDO due to its limited diacritic/symbol support. This has become a challenge as we need better support for various languages while maintaining the professional appearance of our titles.

Request:
We are looking for a sans-serif, light font that is similar in style to Oregon LDO, but with better diacritic support. Ideally, we are seeking free font options due to budget constraints for licensing both the website and the app, as well as allowing users to print.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

John Hudson

Oregon LDO is a pretty straight copy of Hermann Zapf’s classic Optima typeface.

There are not a lot of sans serif designs with similar high stroke contrast, and the only free one that comes to mind is Italiana by Santiago Orozco.

Jasper de Waard

I don't know why you think that Oregon LDO (I hope you were not using any of the darker weights) will make your printouts look professional, but it looks to me like a ripoff of Optima, which has decent diacritic support and comes pre-installed on Macs (not sure about windows).

To be honest, it sounds to me like what you actually need is design expertise. 

Paul Hanslow

*puts on moderator hat*
Jasper, my first thought was your words come across a little harsh, so I thought about asking you to reign it in (yet I may be negatively interpreting what you said). Some TypeDrawers members may not possess your level of type design expertise. 

@abrink, as John Hudson said, if you're set on something similar to Oregon LDO, Optima is your best bet.

Nick Shinn

Asking for free font suggestions at TypeDrawers is not a good look.

Jasper de Waard

@Paul Hanslow Noted, I'll try to reign it in in the future. There is a Dutch directness that borders on rudeness, and I am sometimes guilty of that.

*Trying a more polite approach*

@abrink
You are asking for a recommendation for a free font, which as @Nick Shinn pointed out could rub people the wrong way. I am actually fine with it, though I think a replacement of Orgeon LDO is probably not the best choice for you. You might benefit more from asking for feedback on your printout design.

abrink

Thank you for the feedback and suggestions. I appreciate your insights, and I apologize if my request for a free font came across the wrong way. Coming from a web development background with a strong emphasis on open-source principles, my intention was not to devalue the work of type designers. We are in the process of developing a platform that allows users to self-publish their songs and earn royalties, so supporting creators and ensuring fair compensation is something we take seriously.

However, as we're not a traditional publishing company, we’ve found that many of the font licensing structures we've explored don't provide the flexibility we need for web, app, and print use while being aligned with our expected revenue. We’re trying to find a balance that fits within our business model while still respecting the value of creative work.

It seems we may need to consider falling back to Times New Roman, or another serif font, for songs from our global community that require more extensive diacritic support.

Yves Michel

Nick Shinn said:

Asking for free font suggestions at TypeDrawers is not a good look.

Could you explain why?

Nick Shinn

Yes.

Yves Michel

Fine!

John Hudson

Hmmph!

Ray Larabie

*sigh*

Yves Michel

Thanks for your clear explanations!

Thomas Phinney

@Yves Michel As Nick is more intent on being a curmudgeon than actually communicating, I will take a stab at the latter.

Basically, some of the regulars on TypeDrawers are professional type designers doing retail fonts who make their living by people “buying” (actually, paying for licenses of) their fonts. Nick is among these. Many others are adjacent and have a lot of respect for the craft of type design.

Many people see “free fonts” of various persuasions as a threat to type designers making a living. The particular variety of “free font” in question here, one that is a direct rip-off of a retail typeface from the ~ modern era (1958 in this case) that is still available from the original manufacturer (ok, well, a company that acquired that manufacturer), is one that folks often find offensive. I mean, to the degree that when the possibility was brought up of doing this, I for one told somebody above me in the company structure that I would quit my job rather than work for a company making such fonts—and I didn’t think I would be the only one. My boss was next to me when I said this, and immediately volunteered “no, he wouldn’t.”

This may seem totally arbitrary if you don’t pay close attention to the history and provenance. For example, while I would not do a clone of Optima (Linotype, now Monotype), I have nearly completed an extension/remake of Bank Gothic (early 1930s, ATF). The difference being that besides being ~ 25 years older, the company that made it went bankrupt, and there is no single direct successor. Somebody just recently revived the ATF name, because the trademark on the name was lapsed, but they have no particularly unique claim to the designs.

Of course, some of us note that there has been a huge rise in libre (“free”) fonts of various sorts in the past 10–20 years, and yet type designers are still making a living. Maybe less of it is in retail fonts, and more in commissions and font rental systems. I wrote about this part of it at more length in an article for Communication Arts several years ago: “Fontocalypse Now?” (published in April 2020). I think the current state of the font world on these issues is not much different as regards the economic impact of libre fonts. https://www.commarts.com/columns/fontocalypse-now

Cheers,

T

(edited: typo)

Nick Shinn

I wouldn’t say I was being curmudgeonly (that would be Jasper’s comment), I intended to be witty—a play on the meaning of “could”.

Frankly, I wasn’t prepared to invest any time doing something which should be self evident in “A discussion forum for professionals (my emphasis) and enthusiasts in the fields of typeface design, lettering, and typography,” as the masthead explains. But good job, Thomas.

Also note that this forum’s Rule #1 says: “…it’s because there are better venues for subjects like typography advice, typeface identification…” 

Notwithstanding the poisoning of the font marketplace by Google et al, I repeat: 
Asking for free font suggestions at TypeDrawers is not a good look.
Surely people can figure out this gentle admonition for themselves.

Nick Shinn

Note that there are presently six “Agrees” supporting my admonition, and no “Disagrees,” indicating some degree of comprehension and confirmation.

Eris Alar

abrink said:

It seems we may need to consider falling back to Times New Roman, or another serif font, for songs from our global community that require more extensive diacritic support.

If you are wanting wide language support have you considered the Noto typeface collection? 

Yves Michel

Yves Michel said:

Nick Shinn said:

Asking for free font suggestions at TypeDrawers is not a good look.

Could you explain why?

As the author of this question, I must say your explanations finally came about the "bad look" of the original question. I understand very well  and respect your different points of view as professional typefaces creators.

Thanks Nick, John and Thomas for your answers.

This discussion leads us to another one on TD: "Asking for free fonts on Typedrawers" where I'll explain my humble point of view.