Kerning of serif font....

Mithil Mogare
Mithil Mogare Posts: 48
in Technique and Theory
Hello, I am kerning Latin serif font for first time and I am unable to judge the spacing between various letters. I ended up doing some over-kerned pair or some under-kerned pair. I want reference font and any material to learn judging the space between varied shape letters. Also, I want a proof of various words that contain most of the pairs. Also, how I can start the kerning process or approach the kerning?
P.S. I am using FL7

Thank you.

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Comments

  • Paul Hanslow
    Paul Hanslow Posts: 173
    Hoefler's proofs may help as they provides words for metrics and kerning.
    grab 'em here: https://www.typography.com/blog/text-for-proofing-fonts
  • Thomas Phinney
    Thomas Phinney Posts: 2,883
    edited October 2023
    I just want to really emphasize the principle @Andreas Stötzner mentioned, of being ABSOLUTELY SURE you are done with spacing, before you start kerning.

    Really, really, really certain.

    One of the most common problems even experienced type designers hit, is starting to kern too soon. Doing the opposite is quite rare, in comparison.
  • Thomas Phinney
    Thomas Phinney Posts: 2,883
    The reason this is a problem is, if you adjust the spacing, you pretty much have to throw out the kerning of the affected glyphs.
  • Jacques Le Bailly
    Jacques Le Bailly Posts: 93
    edited October 2023
    And spacing is an important pressure test for the proportions of your glyphs.
  • Artur Schmal
    Artur Schmal Posts: 74
    Thomas Phinney said:
    I just want to really emphasize the principle @Andreas Stötzner mentioned, of being ABSOLUTELY SURE you are done with spacing, before you start kerning.

    Really, really, really certain.

    One of the most common problems even experienced type designers hit, is starting to kern too soon. Doing the opposite is quite rare, in comparison.
    Agreed. Just want to point that in exceptional cases the kerning can be part of the spacing. For example, I'm sometimes using a positive kerning pair between O's or o's.
  • James Montalbano
    James Montalbano Posts: 100
    edited October 2023
    I use this set up in the Preview Window in Fontlab ...



  • Artur Schmal
    Artur Schmal Posts: 74
    Well, I have a slightly different idea about that. I know my control character strings. Especially in optical sizes where spacing becomes tighter, O's and o's can sit comfortably between H's and n's, but OO and oo can feel a tad to close so they need just need a little bit more air in between. It's not an uncommon approach.
  • Mithil Mogare
    Mithil Mogare Posts: 48
    James Montalbano said:
    I would discourage you from doing this. Given this approach you will then have to add positive values to all "round to round" glyphs, what a lot of work.
    I would encourage you to look at 2 strings:
    nnoonon
    HHOOHOH

    Get these looking balanced using only side bearings and then apply those "straight" and "round" values to similar details in the design.

    And remember to think about the space between letters as "volume" and not so much as "distance".
    nnnannn oooaooo and HHHPHHH OOOPOOO in this a and P should have equal volume in between n & o and H & O. Do you mean all characters should have equal volume?
  • James Montalbano
    James Montalbano Posts: 100
    When I refer to volume, I'm referring the the volume between the glyphs. The space between 2 glyphs creates a "negative" space. That space creates different shapes. The volume of that "shape" should be consistent between all glyphs.
  • Craig Eliason
    Craig Eliason Posts: 1,436
    FWIW I think “area” rather than “volume” is the proper term here. 
  • James Montalbano
    James Montalbano Posts: 100
    Area Volume.
    Whatever.
  • James Hultquist-Todd
    James Hultquist-Todd Posts: 417
    When spacing round (O, C, G) next to straight-sided characters (H, I, etc), keep in mind that the widths and mass of the serifs play as big a role as the spacing here (by affecting the overall area/volume between the two glyphs). Play with your serifs a bit and you’ll find you’ll have a lot less kerning to do there.

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