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Where do you put the circumflex in /hcircumflex, and caron in /kcaron?

Cristóbal HenestrosaCristóbal Henestrosa Posts: 57
edited March 17 in Technique and Theory
I’ve seen these two approaches for /hcircumflex and /kcaron: 1) To put the diacritic at the top of the stem (as in Alegreya), or 2) Floating somewhere near to the visual center of the letter (as in Georgia or Palatino). And even mixed solutions, as in Athelas. I am not sure which one is better. What are your thoughts on this?

Comments

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 2,642
    The h with circumflex is peculiar to Esperanto, and as I recall Esperantists prefer it with the mark optically centered on the full width of the letter, rather than above the stem. 
  • Igor FreibergerIgor Freiberger Posts: 220
    edited March 18
    I place centered over the ascenders and also include alternatives for both. The floating position centered on width is terribly ugly.

  • Andreas StötznerAndreas Stötzner Posts: 723

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 2,642
    I recall mention, many years ago, of research that indicated centring marks on the width of letters is best for legibility, i.e. that people read diacritics more easily when the mark is in a regular and predictable position relative to the base.

    Nested marks seem problematic as weight increases.
  • Andreas StötznerAndreas Stötzner Posts: 723
    I just realise that I have not been consequent with this throughout. The circumflex-h really looks terrible:
    that induces me to check the whole band of ascender letters with accents. Fortunately they are rare. f and l are the only hardship cases where one has no choice. The cicumflex of the h will move downwards next time, most certainly (now it looks like a drunkard).
    the Welsh dot characters are a case of its own … working much better in a traditional style, which is not surprising.

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 2,642
    Irish, not Welsh.

    I think the nested marks generally look noisy, and are less clear than having the marks above the ascender height.
  • Andreas StötznerAndreas Stötzner Posts: 723
    John Hudson said:
    Irish, not Welsh.

    yes of course. sorry.
    Gaelic anyway  ;)
  • Nick ShinnNick Shinn Posts: 1,980
    Although it might seem that in placing lower case accents above the cap line they’ve lost their moorings and are floating away, bear in mind that in running text there will be cap accents at the same height.
  • Thomas PhinneyThomas Phinney Posts: 2,467
    If the ascenders are taller than the caps—as is the case much of the time—then the accents over the ascenders may need to be higher.
  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 2,642
    I also make a point of using the flatter cap forms of above marks over lowercase ascenders. Among the oddities shown in Cristobál’s illustration is the inconsistency of mark height in Alegreya and Athelas.
  • Igor FreibergerIgor Freiberger Posts: 220
    John: nested diacritics is a very good name. It's new for me. 

    Nick: I dislike the centered diacritics not because how high they are, but because this set up lets an uneven, big blank area at right.

    Thomas: another good point, I need to test these encounters a bit more.

    John: I got the same suggestion from Denis Jacquerye some time ago and it's far better.

    Andreas: is there something that does not look good in Andron? 😉
  • Igor FreibergerIgor Freiberger Posts: 220
    Of course, this area already exists, but it gets demarcated and highlighted with the diacritic. And, albeit you are objectively correct, I can't find the result good. Anyway, the ĥ is like the y with ogonek: no solution is really good.
  • Adolfo JaymeAdolfo Jayme Posts: 7
    The placement near the top of the ascender is easier to read to me. I find other placements very distracting.
  • Simon CozensSimon Cozens Posts: 660
    While we're on the subject, any clues on ḣ? I'm trying to work out what to do with this Noto issue.
  • Thomas PhinneyThomas Phinney Posts: 2,467
    The t with wedge caron, where the caron runs into the top of the t, is particularly troubling.
  • Cristóbal HenestrosaCristóbal Henestrosa Posts: 57
    edited March 23
    Thank you all for your insights. It seems that there are different opinions on the matter.
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