Crushed by the Font Industry (Please Read)

No Name

Dear Font Community,

In January 2012 I started my career as a font designer and founded Cultivated Mind Fonts. Prior to that I had so many struggles being a graphic designer. From low wages to clients that wouldn’t pay. When I discovered font design I was so happy to be selling fonts. I loved typography, I could work remotely and could also do graphic design work for my poster graphics. As my fonts became more popular the demands of the vendors poured in. I did everything I could to please and respect the vendors, the font community and the brands. I helped pave the path for other designers who where not using high quality poster graphics to sell their fonts. Others followed and copied. I helped mentor new font designers from creative market that reached out to me and needed guidance trying to create fonts. I was constantly giving everything I could to help my brand, inspire the font community and the vendors grow. 

I was disrepected by the vendors. I didn’t count. I continued to create fonts and as the years went on the demands of the vendors and customers started to mess with my mental health. To the point of a break down in 2018. I couldn’t figure out why vendors stopped promoting me in 2018 when my fonts were still very popular and sold well when promoted. When not promoted, my fonts will not get seen. I felt shadow banned. They just decided to pull the plug on promoting me. It was a shock as we had a dedicated partnership. It took my income down 90%. I can hardly survive as a font designer now and there hasn’t been a soul in this industry who has tried to reach out to me. I am absolutely crushed by the font community and I just need to express this. 

Also I see my fonts everywhere by huge brands but I am not seeing any of these extended licensing payments from the vendors. I reach out to brands for receipts and they either ignore me or say they don’t have to show payment receipts to my OWN ASSETS. No payments have been made to me on any licensing deal, no Invoices are shown ever… I can’t afford a licensing agent to help me. I have also found some vendors do deals behind my back that I have caught. I hope there aren’t licensing deals going on behind my back. Something is fishy…..I don’t know how these huge brands are profiting off my fonts but I can’t pay rent now. I am so sad and still am great at making fonts. However, ever time I try to make a font I have PTSD and start crying because this community has only taken, copied and destroyed me….Hope that the people pocketing the money off my fonts know how hard I struggled to make and maintain these fonts. It literally takes me 1 year or more to create a font family. I am saddened. Please speak out!

Nick Shinn

You could engage a lawyer to go after end user licensing infringements, on a “pay if you win” basis. 

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In distributor agreements, there is usually a clause about being able to audit the distributor’s accounts.

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I sympathize about the “no promotion, no sales” situation, but that’s how things have evolved. When font licensing started, marketing was amateurish, but now it has become extremely sophisticated and competitive.

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As a type designer, it helps to have both commissioned and retail work, and also do production for other foundries. Perhaps someone at Type Drawers can send some of that your way. 

JoyceKetterer

Low hanging fruit promotions:  you say your fonts are everywhere but there are very few entires on fontsinuse.  Everyone I know says that website is one of their top referrers. To that end, are you doing any direct sales?  Shopping carts are complicated to set up but it might be worth considering.  

Ray Larabie

Creative Market is a unique corner of the market that serves a different type of customer than Monotype/Fontspring. My frequent sellers on Creative Market are completely different from what's selling on Monotype/Fontspring. On Creative Market, since last summer, I have sold precisely zero embedding licenses. On Fontspring, I sell mostly embedding licenses. Creative Market is worth using but my sales are about 0.75% of my sales through other vendors. I don't expect to make much money there, but a market is a market and they cater to a different crowd who might not visit Myfonts etc. With vendors, it's a tradeoff. A lot of them take 50% and that sucks but they've got the traffic so they can do that. There are plenty of smaller distributors too and it may not seem worth bothering with, but those little checks add up. Spend the time to make sure your fonts are being distributed everywhere unless they don't handle embedding licenses or are Canva.

Should you be making another font right now? Maybe not. Nick pointed out a few years ago...I don't remember the quote exactly, but the essence was that the rational thing to do would be to put our efforts into marketing what we've already made rather than making new fonts. Maybe he used the term "elephant in the room?" But it sunk in; I kept it in the back of my mind. I spent most of the last 2 years on promotional material and fixing and improving my old fonts and my sales have gone up significantly. And that's with practically zero promotion from the vendors. There's always room to improve promotional material; styles change. Maybe you need to update your promotional material for some of your hits to reflect the decade we're in. It's a drag; I'd rather be making more fonts but that's how the business works. Experiment with pricing. The sweet spot keeps changing. A too-low and a too-high price exists and it's up to you to find it. Same goes with embedding multipliers. Some vendors allow you to change that and the default isn't always the best choice; think about sticker shock. Personally, I don't think discount sales work as an effective promotional tool for fonts because agencies don't shop that way. They need a font for a specific task...they're not font hobbyists or collectors. I may get back into it, but I found no correlation between discounted fonts and long-term sales of those fonts.

You might have older fonts that you made before you knew certain OpenType tricks, maybe you know vertical metrics better now, maybe additional language coverage could help. It's worth going over them and thinking about: if an ad agency were considering this font, what would be the dealbreaker? Address that. Forget about the Creative Market customers for a while and focus on pleasing ad agencies; that's where the real money is, and they probably don't shop at Creative Market. Don't expect promotion from the distributors. They probably calculate whatever they think will sell the most and they want a spread of certain price points and styles. It's beyond our control and possibly beyond any individual's control.

A lot of people will disagree with me but don't count pennies. There are lots of great customers who are willing to play fair. The effort you spend chasing down individual licenses is another potential client lost because you didn't put that effort into your fonts or promotional material. If someone's using one of my fonts with an improper license, I don't care. I'm simply happy they chose one of mine out of all the other fonts out there. Don't hassle your clients, just focus on selling more.

You can do this with a change of tack. Keep on keepin' on.

Craig Eliason

So much of the type world is based on trust—trust in users to follow license terms, and trust in resellers to be transparent in their dealings. Cracks in the sense of trustworthiness really make the bottom fall out of the whole thing. 

If specific vendors do bad by foundries (here I'm talking not about insufficient promotion but about things like sales kept secret to avoid royalties, as implied by the OP), it'd be good for all foundries to be aware of who they are. But I suppose if somebody feels like they can't afford an agent to pursue the case, it also might be fiscally risky to cast accusations at well-lawyered corporations. 

Maybe a whitelist instead of a blacklist is safer: who are the most trusted vendors?

JoyceKetterer

@Cindy Kinash I'm sure it feels to you like we're nibbling at the edges of your problem.  To some degree, that's true.  I hope that what you can get from this is that your problems are common in this system and you have a community of people willing to share our strategies for dealing with them.  Unfortunately, I think the over all take away is that to be successful you have to be your own agent to a large degree.  You can place your fonts with resellers but you can't expect those resellers to be more than a sales platform.  

@Ray Larabie I don't want to weigh in too much on the question of license infringement.  I understand your perspective and in many cases I agree with it.  That said, in my experience, almost literally all license infringement is a good faith mistake (especially the very big violations by very large companies). Therefore, my approach is client education and kind hearted correction of those mistakes. But I also think this is a premature conversation in Cindy's thread.  Sure, there are probably some large ticket license infringements of her fonts but she doesn't even have proof of purchase from her resellers.  So, she doesn't have the ability to identify violative uses.  And, even if she did, we don't know anything about the license(s) her fonts are issued under. 

Cindy, I think you will one day want to think about licensing and when you do feel free to reach out to me.  The sheer number of details will be overwhelming when you're ready for it, and completely paralysing now.  

No Name

@Craig Eliason @Ray Larabie @JoyceKetterer @Nick Shinn Thank you greatly for the tips and you are kind to take your time to explain strategies. I am aware of what needs to be done but its a lot of work and every time I attempt to do it I feel I have burn out from 10 years in the font game. I feel unsupported now so there is no motivation after burn out.

I also was writing my experience so others can understand what happened to my foundry and how vendors and brands will take advantage. Maybe newer font foundries can learn from my failures to get control independently and not to rely on vendors to promoting you. Also why don't vendors share extended licensing invoices/deals to our own assets?

Currently I have a massive library of assets that need to be secured with extended licensing. My fonts don't need work as they have been updated by a font developer. Are there any Font Management companies that specify in font licensing by a commission fee? Basically I need a licensing agent/agents that need to contact these top brands and request receipts for extended licensing. I was recently advised by vendors not to contact brands for licensing verification as it scares them away. So do I do nothing based on what the vendor says?

JoyceKetterer

@Cindy Kinash I don't think anyone with a business model like that exists. There are, however smart people who might be willing to work for on commission (and definitely smart people who'd work if you can pay them). And there is me, who is happy to give away strategic advice about license enforcement for free (but you'd have to do the labor yourself).

I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice.  If you are the licensor (meaning the end client contract is with you and not the reseller) then you are definitely within your rights to contact users.  It's true you can scare the clients, but there are ways to be tactful and actually make these interactions more likely to lead to more sales. That said, there's a very good chance (especially with "extended" licensing) that you are not the licensor. Btw, that would probably be how the resellers justify not telling you about the sales. 

 We're now getting into the territory I said would be overwhelming later and completely paralysing now.  

If you want to explore this the first step would be to look at the licensing you know about.  Your contracts with the resellers, your own license, things that are publicly observable about their practices, etc. If you want me to look at that stuff with you I will. If it seems from that review that you might have leverage (which, frankly there's a good chance you don't) then you pick the five biggest uses and consult a good attorney with a background in litigation and software licensing (I know a few names but good lawyers are expensive – as are the bad ones, actually).  There's a good chance the first step with the attorney will be to write an angry letter to these resellers to get you sales data.  

BUT.... I don't think that's the thing to do now.  License enforcement is a long arduous process that only works if you're very well prepared for it with a clear relationship to to the fonts (so they can tell you're legit), a strong license, and a good legal and investigatory team. AND EVEN THEN THE BIG SETTLEMENTS GENERALLY TAKE AT LEAST A YEAR.  I've made my reputation on this stuff and I find it exhausting bordering on burn out inducing.

This is why I think your best step now is to step back and establish that infrastructure.  The easiest thing in the world is to do a bunch of fontsinuse posts so your name will come up when someone googles the font name.  Then you can think about the harder stuff.  Some of it will be marketing. You might want to terminate relationships with some resellers, but I'd leave that till after you decide if you want to demand sales data because you'll have a better bargaining position if you can threaten to leave then if you've already left. 

In the meantime, you can think about the other things mentioned in this thread:
1. which resellers you aren't with that you want to be with and see if they are interested.  I don't know if this is in the cards for you, but I'm personally quite happy with Adobe. 
2.  Price tweaking 

Alex Visi

Cindy, it seems like you’ve been relying on vendors too much, but vendors have no interest in promoting any specific foundries. Your name only shows 5 pages in Google and there are 6 pages for “Cultivated Mind Fonts”. Consider focusing on promoting your works more.

Also, the style of most of your fonts looks very niche and you may be experiencing changes in what people need (happens to any niche).

Piracy-wise, chances are you’re going to spend a lot of time and money catching companies and going to the court, but the outcome of that activity is likely to be pretty low, even if you’ll win a few times. Just saying!

Fontfruits

Hi Cindy,

I remember you were a featured designer on myfonts, when they still had a handful of designers they were promoting, with lovely sketched portraits- I remember it was in the left hand margin of the main page. I really liked that idea, such a nice touch   I also remember when they suddenly changed their homepage which removed these, and thought - how odd.

But I think they have changed their market or their business model - they are now taking on a lot more fonts, that seem lower quality - more like quantity over quality is the order of the day. It's a shame, as it's kind of hard to wade through all the bad fonts there now. I wonder if another vendor will step in and take over that role. But then again - you couldn't count on them sticking to that methodology of quality over quality indefinitely either. You can only really ever rely on building a following for yourself these days. I wish you all the best Cindy! And remember its better to not have all your eggs in one basket  

Fontfruits

Also - this thread might interest you - you aren't alone...

https://typedrawers.com/discussion/3718/experience-with-monotype-royalties-owed#latest

No Name

@JoyceKetterer your advice is amazing and I agree with everything you detailed. Fonts in use can be a step for sure as it seems like a gain. Makes sense to pay a licensing agent rather than commission. Do you do licensing freelance work @JoyceKetterer ? I am trying to rebuild a new creative business in another industry as I need a new Creative Outlet...I'm more of an artist than a font designer....  I will need to come back to Cultivated Mind updates/licensing/promoting when I can pay a team to recover it. But I will not let Brands take advantage of my failure to secure licensing. Hopefully by the spring I will have the energy and money to invest in promoting Cultivated Mind. I sure appreciate your words @JoyceKetterer.

@Alex Visi exactly. I did depend on vendors too much. I was naive to think that they would continue to promote me. And this is unrealistic in any industry. I hope new font foundries read this thread to learn to not have all their eggs in one basket. I had to learn that the hard way.

@Fontfruits thank you greatly for the kind words. You opened my eyes to understand that there indeed is a change with Vendors from accepting Quality Niche Creative fonts to now accepting cheaper basic fonts for profit. Although I think most vendors still have high guidelines to submitting quality fonts.

I really appreciate all your posts. It gives me hope in the font community.

JoyceKetterer

@Cindy Kinash no, I don't. If I did I'd not give the advice away for free.  I'm pretty sure nobody does.  It's too hard.  If you really just want out maybe consider selling your ip?  But, the first step for that would also be increasing your profile.  For the sake of clarity, I'm not a potential buyer.  My foundry is far too different.  That's said, I think you have a shot at righting your ship if you have the energy to try again.  It will be work but I don't think it will feel futile so probably you can get past burn out.  If you want to talk pm me and I'll send my phone number 

James Puckett

Regarding an extended licensing agent, Font Bros. will negotiate licensing in exchange for a commission.

Edit: I would also like to add that I am very happy about my relationship with Adobe. I encourage you to give them a try. If you’re scared to take the plunge with your entire library you can always start with a few typefaces and add more later.

Fontfruits

James Puckett said:

Regarding an extended licensing agent, Font Bros. will negotiate licensing in exchange for a commission.

Edit: I would also like to add that I am very happy about my relationship with Adobe. I encourage you to give them a try. If you’re scared to take the plunge with your entire library you can always start with a few typefaces and add more later.

How does one go about approaching Adobe for applying as a foundry? - I've tried finding a link somewhere in the past but to no avail...mind you it could just be me being blonde

James Puckett

@Fontfruits I have messaged you an email address.

Juanjo López

Depending on big vendors wasn't so bad some years ago, but in the end is like depending on Instagram or Facebook. A little change in a search algorithm can make you invisible after years of work.

I can even search in the sales report the moment when MyFonts just forgot about me and most people I have asked about it. And other nicer sellers just can't compete with them.

After launching a new typeface in November, I decided not to do the usual (post some posters on social media and be happy starting another one) and dedicate myself to think about how to sell the ones I already have, as well as to update and improve the old ones. And to focus in my own store and different sellers like ILT, no more quantity over quality vendors. I'm happy to see it seems to be the right thing to do.
I also tried Adobe (I asked for the contact mail on Twitter), but it seems that they don't want new latin based foundries. Or at least mine.

Andreas Stötzner

I must say I’m fairly touched by the way how you describe your situation – and your pain, @Cindy Kinash. I hesitate to response, however, I try.
It seems to me that it would be not so bad if you could achieve to seperate the two parts of your problem, first. There is a) the business issues you face (like many of us do); b) the mental pressure you find yourself under, as a result of a).
The type business world is fairly rotten since many years. It’s a waste of time to mourn about it. We type enthusiasts are dreaming of becoming happy by doing wonderful type design – and then get disappointed when the market doesn’t pay back for our commitment of blood, sweat and tears. That’s the reality.
Therefore, as we still love type and nothing can be done about it, some survival strategy is needed. For myself, I have seized to expect very much from the market, long ago. Lucky if you find some niche which still gives you some recompense and acknowledgement. I have neither the mood nor the energy to throw myself into struggels the outcome of which are more than uncertain, life is too short for that.
On the other hand I still love doing type design and I’m unreasonable enough to follow my paths of whims and silly or strange ideas. Because it satisfies me to finalize some lovely font and to issue it – come what may. I refrain from putting my level of happiness under the rule of monthly sales figures. If neccessary, I do something completely different for subsistence. (Oddly enough, some of my silly fonts do better at the checkout than some of the ‘serious’ ones).
Having said that, I claim it’s two totally different things to be successful or to become happy. I wish for you the latter in the first place, whatever you’re going to undertake practically.
And: you’re not alone! Don’t tie your fate to the mercy of others.

Die in-dryfoun

Important message to rookie type designers: Be very very careful with what you sign when you are presented with a draft distribution agreement. Always ask for legal advice and also consult with more experienced type professionals (well, at least the ones who haven't sold their souls to big type/software corporations).

Fontfruits

James Puckett said:

@Fontfruits I have messaged you an email address.

Thanks so much James!

No Name

Thanks for the tips... I think the main thing is to always try and be independent. These font vendors are not supportive. 

However the font community needs to be more supportive to each other in compliments  of each others work rather than criticizing others work.

I had a conversation yesterday with a well experienced font designer who literally told me I need to take a calligraphy course or brush font course. It was such an insult since my fonts are all over the place unlicensed. So many brands definitely like my fonts but don't extend their licensing with me. I had top sales on all vendors from 2012 -2018. I don't see his fonts anywhere..Yet he knew I was down and then insulted my artistic skills...THIS IS NOT SUPPORIVE! THIS IS KICKING ME WHEN IM DOWN!

I will need a new creative industry/community that supports, compliments not the latter. Let's support not criticize please. Let's inspire not criticize. Let's compliment not criticize.

JoyceKetterer

@Cindy Kinash Please stop.  There are jerks everywhere.  The idea that you can jump from industry to industry and eventually find one that has only nice people is simply delusional.  As far as I can tell, you've never tried participating in our community. So, you just don't know. Those of us on this board have been nothing but kind and generous to you. I suggest you try before you throw around insults.

kupfers

Really? Frankly, I’m a bit shocked about the tone in this thread, which was immediately set by the first dry, factual answer to a heartfelt, relatable story. One would wish this community was a bit more empathetic. How can any of us know who “properly” tried to participate? What kind of accusation is that? Is the rate of Type Drawers comments the score to go by? 

JoyceKetterer

@kupfers yes.  really.  Trying to deal with the problem as presented because we simply can't help with the emotional fall out is hardly dispassionate. I think it's clear that we feel for the human suffering in this thread and were trying our best.  At some point we are reasonable to push back against insults.  

Nick Shinn

That’s a little unfair, Indra. I noticed that there was no response to Cindy’s post for a while after she posted, so I thought someone should say something, rather than just ignore her predicament. I was offering practical advice, to the best of my ability. I would not have bothered posting if I hadn’t felt for her. I consider practical advice, prompted by empathy, to be more helpful than expressions of feeling—and I did actually say I sympathized.

Thomas Phinney

Cindy, I just want to say that I am really sorry that you have had such a bad experience. But I hope you know that from our previous private conversations!

For what its worth, I have not had such negative experiences in the font biz overall. But I have certainly had some bad moments, and seen some bad things going down without being involved in them. I am sure Cindy is hardly alone in her travails.

That said, I do want to say there are a LOT of lovely and supportive people out there, in the type biz. And they include plenty of big name people.

Without knowing the details of the various contracts, it is hard to comment much (other than to say that contracts often favor the party that drafts them). And getting a lawyer to help you review your contractual rights with vendors, and possibly help you approach especially large 3rd parties who are using your fonts, seems like a real option to me. Not a cheap one, though.

Beyond that, I don’t think I have much to offer to the thread, beyond supporting ideas I thought were good, and disagreeing in a few spots.

No Name

Again, trying to be know it alls doesn't help support each other @JoyceKetterer

No Name

@JoyceKetterer is a very good example of how the font community lacks empathy. She is quick to give detailed solutions just like many other educated font designers in this post. It comes off as a "know it all". 

All I was asking for in this article is EMPATHY and HOPE.... I wanted to hear other designers related stories to bring awareness and maybe change my mind about the lack of support in the industry. It seems other foundries will support you when there is something for them rather than inspiring one another.

I know everything I need to do but I lack income to pay a team and I have burn out from being too giving in this industry. I don't need a competition of who's the most knowledgable font designer. Start supporting each other and listening. Start inspiring one another rather than competing.

JoyceKetterer

@Cindy Kinash Of course I feel empathy for you.  I thought it would ring hallow to just say so but trusted that it would come through in the messages I sent.  I don't know it all, but I am a business side expert and I am trying to help you without asking anything in return.  If that's not showing empathy I really don't know what could. 

I disagree that you know what you need to do. I think you're in a dark place.  I've been in places like that and I was trying to offer a some practical assistance.  There really are baby steps you can take that wouldn't be costly.  You can put one foot in front of the other and get out of this.  I don't think you'll be exactly where you where before but you could be in a strong business position from which to make decisions.  Or you can throw insults and strop away to another industry, where you will likely eventually encounter the same problem.  

If turning me into a villain in your mind makes you feel better that's fine.  It costs me nothing to let you do that.  I wish you the best of luck, sincerely.

Thomas Phinney

Cindy, I think this just shows the division between people who heard your story and wanted to offer “helpful advice” because they thought that was what you were looking for, versus you just wanting emotional support.

Re-reading the starting message in the thread, I don’t think “please speak out!” tells us which it is you wanted/needed. I tried to do both, but I could have just as easily only done the “helpful advice” part, thinking that would be helpful. And I still offered that advice, because I thought that was at least part of what you were asking for.

Jasper de Waard

After reading @JoyceKetterer's comments, usually I just click 'insightful', so as not to clutter the forum with useless comments of my own. This time I clicked 'agree', but just thought I'd also comment (at the risk of cluttering) to say that her comments have given me a lot of insight in the business side of fonts. I think they are usually balanced and aimed at actually helping someone, not know-it-all at all. So @JoyceKetterer, I for one really appreciate the time and effort you put into sharing your knowledge. Thank you.

@Cindy Kinash I am sorry you feel let down and unsupported, and I hope things will change for the better for you. Typing that on an online forum feels a bit void to me though, which is why I refrained from commenting before.