Série 16

Fiz de la Peña
Fiz de la Peña Posts: 64
in History of Typography
Hello everybody,

I am doing some research on the physical characteristics of a particular book - its margins, construction and binding, covers, typography... I got into a type identification forum and I was told that the typeface used throughout the main text was Sezieme, a modern recreation of Série 16 - a typeface that was abundantly used in the early 20th century.

I wonder if there is any way to look at that font's type specimen, just so I be able to compare the two faces properly.

Also, is there any serious site where type identification is currently taking place? I try Whathefont sometimes but I get the feeling they lack true, hard-earned expertise.

Thank you for reading this. I hope to hear from you!

:)

Comments

  • Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian
    Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian Posts: 2,044
    edited March 2021
    Is this Deberny's №16? A long-time favorite of mine, actually. A while back Amelia Hugill-Fontanel kindly sent me some scans, but your best bet is to contact Charles Mazé of the ABYME foundry, who put out the best revival of that classic beauty in 2018.
    https://typographica.org/typeface-reviews/berthe/
  • konrad ritter
    konrad ritter Posts: 204
    We looked at a lot of snippets set in Serie 16eme in this thread:
    https://typedrawers.com/discussion/3655/reviving-french-classics-from-the-later-lead-age#latest

    I personally think that, except for the brush-like terminals (instead of ball-shaped), Mr Simonson's new Etna comes closest to the look of the real, metal-type Serie 16eme. Neither Coen Hoffman's Seizieme nor Charles Mazé's quite capture it. They're both too high-contrast to resemble the original well enough. I'd use them as display faces, but definitely not for long texts. For comparison, here are snippets from both (Seizieme is the top two, and Berthe the bottom two). 




    Berthe:





    (The text sample is from Mr Sowersby's blog.) 
  • Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian
    Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian Posts: 2,044
    edited March 2021
    @konrad ritter Etna is based on American wood type. Which naturally makes it very homey, unlike the quite stately continental designs that might very well have inspired its sources. This to me is quite apparent when looking in person at Louis Émile Javal's use of Deberny №16 (and variants).
  • konrad ritter
    konrad ritter Posts: 204
    I stand corrected. I didn't mean to mislead about what Etna stands for -- I knew about its origin. I just judged about its appearance in text settings, based on my memories of many years poring over French books from 1910 to about 1960, when Serie 16eme was the default face for most of them. It's the legible tightness and the dark solidity that Etna comes close to recalling (despite its origins!) but the other two faces we mentioned above fail to achieve. 

    Regrettably, I'm not familiar with the work of Javal. There's much I don't know. 
  • Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian
    Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian Posts: 2,044
    edited March 2021
    Javal was an ophthalmologist (as well as an astute and inventive soul) and his «Physiologie de la Lecture et de l'Écriture» is where I first noticed the №16... especially that admirably sober yet tasteful Italic.

  • Stephen Coles
    Stephen Coles Posts: 1,008
    is there any serious site where type identification is currently taking place?

    I humbly suggest https://fontid.co.

  • Stephen Coles
    Stephen Coles Posts: 1,008
    Also, there are links to specimens, related typefaces, and other info on Série 16’s page on Fonts In Use.
  • John Savard
    John Savard Posts: 1,135
    Stephen Coles said:
    Also, there are links to specimens, related typefaces, and other info on Série 16’s page on Fonts In Use.
    The 1920 Deberny specimen was interesting for many other reasons, it's one that I hadn't found before on the Internet Archive. One of those reasons is that not only does it describe regular music type, but it also fully describes a set of music type for Gregorian chant!
  • Fiz de la Peña
    Fiz de la Peña Posts: 64
    Hrant H. Papazian said:
    Is this Deberny's №16? A long-time favorite of mine, actually. A while back Amelia Hugill-Fontanel kindly sent me some scans, but your best bet is to contact Charles Mazé of the ABYME foundry, who put out the best revival of that classic beauty in 2018.
    https://typographica.org/typeface-reviews/berthe/
    Thanks for the information!
  • Fiz de la Peña
    Fiz de la Peña Posts: 64
    Hrant H. Papazian said:
    Is this Deberny's №16? A long-time favorite of mine, actually. A while back Amelia Hugill-Fontanel kindly sent me some scans, but your best bet is to contact Charles Mazé of the ABYME foundry, who put out the best revival of that classic beauty in 2018.
    https://typographica.org/typeface-reviews/berthe/

    Stephen Coles said:
    is there any serious site where type identification is currently taking place?

    I humbly suggest https://fontid.co.

    Stephen Coles said:
    is there any serious site where type identification is currently taking place?

    I humbly suggest https://fontid.co.

    Stephen Coles said:
    is there any serious site where type identification is currently taking place?

    I humbly suggest https://fontid.co.

    Stephen Coles said:
    Also, there are links to specimens, related typefaces, and other info on Série 16’s page on Fonts In Use.
    Stephen Coles said:
    Also, there are links to specimens, related typefaces, and other info on Série 16’s page on Fonts In Use.
    Stephen Coles said:
    Also, there are links to specimens, related typefaces, and other info on Série 16’s page on Fonts In Use.
    Thank you very much!!!

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