Lithuanian I/i with ogonek in serif typeface

We know that in Navajo, the ogonek should be centered, whereas in Polish (Ą, Ę, ą, ę) and Lithuanian (Ą, Ę, Į, Ų, ą, ę, į, ų), it should be attached to the rightmost part of the letter (except for Ų, where it's centered if the U doesn't have a downward stroke at the right side).

What does that mean for Lithuanian "Į" and "į"? If there is neither a serif nor a curved terminal at the bottom, then there is only one choice: attach the ogonek to the stem. If there is a curved terminal, the ogonek gets attached to the terminal. But what happens if there is a serif at the bottom, and in particular, if the serif is as large as in, say, Courier? Do Lithuanians attach the ogonek to the stem in this case, or is the serif considered as an integral part of the letter, so that the ogonek gets attached to the right end of the serif instead?











Comments

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 1,851
    edited June 3
    The general approach for all European use of the ogonek is to attach in such a way that the hook sits below the right side of the letter but does not extend beyond it. The easiest way to achieve good results is to optically align the bottom of the hook with the right edge of the letter. This approach can be applied regardless of the width or weight of the letter.
    In this design, I've applied the same method to the Ą. In some others I have opted for the approach that replaces the inner serif.
  • Vasil StanevVasil Stanev Posts: 534
    Always when asking such questions, think first what  the natural way for the hand to write it out is. Search for examples on the web for Lithianian handwriting, ask Lithianians on Quora or other social networks.

    I always center the origin on the stem on the I,i, because it would float otherwise in a sans.
  • "But what happens if there is a serif at the bottom, and in particular, if the serif is as large as in, say, Courier?"

    In this case the serif ceases to function as a serif (especially in sans-serif fonts) and makes the letter become a different fundamental letterform, like a vs ɑ or g vs ɡ. It is a solid horizontal stem, and the ogonek anchors to it.



  • I realized that a serif typeface is right in the title.


  • Adam JagoszAdam Jagosz Posts: 605
    edited June 9
    The last example looks a bit inconsistent: the ogonek is barely aligned with the right edge of /I /i. While aesthetically it doesn't look bad, it is a bit mechanical and reminds of the Cyrillic descender (maybe that's desired in Lithuanian?). It's definitely a cleaner solution than attaching to the stem, but /A /a /u also have serifs/terminals and the ogonek is not attached to them. If /A /a /u are this visually busy, simplifying /I /i seems like wasted effort.
    Any native input?
  • Igor FreibergerIgor Freiberger Posts: 160
    edited June 10
    My approach is based on Adam Twardoch's instructions for Polish and additional research on other languages. Image includes alternates:


  • Vasil StanevVasil Stanev Posts: 534
    I find this to be an excellent selection, Igor! Bra-vo from me! :)
  • Adam JagoszAdam Jagosz Posts: 605
    edited June 15
    Igor, I think the Navajo Ę is off-center (leans to the left) and I still think /Iogonek could use either central attachment (with a more vertical link) or a wider link (for visual centering below the stem) for Navajo.
    I think the join in centered ą could be lighter.
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