DTL Van den Keere text italic?

Joshua Langman

Dear TypeDrawers community,

I'm a typographer and a book designer, and a longtime reader of this forum. I used to be active on Typophile, and I recognize many of the current contributors from there. I have a very specific question that I hope someone here can help with.

I’m interested in licensing DTL Van den Keere for a book design project, but I am unable to verify that the family includes an italic in the text cut. As you can see in the screenshots attached here, the relevant page of the specimen, entitled “Roman und Italic Text Regular” showcases the roman but has a blank space where the italic is apparently supposed to be. The various dropdown menus on the DTL sites (both of them) omit the text italic from the list of styles. I can find no sample of the italic in the text cut, nor even any confirmation that it exists. However, this style does show up in the online store for purchase. But I hesitate to purchase a font that I cannot first see.

I e-mailed DTL about this a week ago, but having heard nothing, I’m hoping maybe someone else can help me figure this out. I would be very happy to go ahead and license the face for this project, provided I can find a specimen of the text italic first.

Thank you to all for any assistance you can provide.

[I've categorized this as "type business," which is my best guess of topic, but feel free to move it.]

Josh

Andreas Stötzner

It is an attractive typeface with a nice warm personality, so it’ll be a shame if it gets out of the game just because the shop owner does not respond.

However, – it really is a pitty, – that messy regular ß alone would it make an absolute no-brainer for me, to use it for anything.

There are many other well-made Garamonds out there, sure there might be an alternativ? I myself could only offer you Andron, it is not Garamondish but has a very similar colour.

Micha Mirck

At URW there is an italic
https://www.urwtype.com/en/shop/?fontshop=datei:show_font_details;fontnummer:v019013d;

Joshua Langman

Thanks, Andreas. Andron is actually on my list of faces that I am waiting for an excuse to purchase, but as you say it is not quite Garamondish enough for this project. Other faces that are currently in the running include ATF Garamond, Xavier Dupré's Garalda (probably too contemporary), and MVB Verdigris. The thing I particularly like about Van den Keere is that the roman feels like a Garamond but the italic is both considerably more upright and considerably more regular, which is an advantage in this case. At least, this describes the display italic, which is the only one I have seen.

Micha, thanks. Unless I am mistaken, it looks like URW licenses only the display cuts — thus the (D) in the font names — and not the text cut that I am looking for.

LeMo aka PatternMan aka Frank E Blokland

Dear Joshua,

I am very sorry to read that you have not received a response to your e-mail: we have obviously overlooked or misplaced it. As for DTL VandenKeere T Italic, I actually designed it over 20 years ago. For example, I also made a Black version, open capitals, abbreviations, etc., as you can see in the attached images.

Although the character sets are complete or almost complete, I have never found the time for the required fine tuning. I am afraid I will not be able to finish the Text Italic this year. We have so many projects on the shelf, including Cyrillic for almost the entire library, the release of DTL Romulus (the project started in 1997), DTL Sheldon, the release of DTL Estuary in two weeks, DTL Fell’s Pro fonts, etc.

In addition, we will have to launch DTL OTMaster 8 and FoundryMaster in the autumn. So, it is a bit busy.

All the best, Frank

Joshua Langman

Dear Frank,

Thank you for the very thorough and informative response! This makes a lot of sense and clarifies why I was able to find scattered references to the text italic but not the face itself. The italic and other styles are certainly very tantalizing, and I hope that they will eventually be released. The good news for me is that I am planning for a project far in advance, and it is possible that should these styles, particularly the text italic, become available within the next couple of years, I might still be able to make use of them. And if not, I hope to have a chance to use them for something whenever they do become available.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, and best of luck with the rest of your very busy-sounding year!

Josh

Dan Reynolds

In terms of digital Van den Keere revivals, there is also the Heldane typeface from Klim Type Foundry. I like Heldane a lot. It comes in two different families, each built around intended usage size:

https://klim.co.nz/retail-fonts/heldane-display/
https://klim.co.nz/retail-fonts/heldane-text/

LeMo aka PatternMan aka Frank E Blokland

In addition, there is the DTL [Gros] Canon Project of which, for example, DTL Flamande is part.

Joshua Langman

Thanks, Dan. Heldane looks very interesting, and possibly promising for this project.

Best,

Josh

Joshua Langman

Hello, all,

I'm reviving this conversation four years later (!) because the project for which I was interested in licensing the text cut of DTL Van den Keere, including the italic, is still in progress, and I am still holding out hope that the font will be released in time for me to use it — say, in the next year or so.

I have once again sent a message in to DTL via their web site but haven't received a response. (Frank and other DTL folks, perhaps your web contact form is malfunctioning?)

So I return here to ask Dr. Blokland whether there is any update on the availability of the Van den Keere text italic. The typeface remains my number-one choice for a forthcoming scholarly book.

Thanks and best,

Josh

@LeMo aka PatternMan aka Frank E Blokland

LeMo aka PatternMan aka Frank E Blokland

Dear Joshua, thank you for your post and your continued interest in the text version of DTL VandenKeere. I am sorry to read that your last message did not reach us. I just checked the form and it seems to work fine. However, we receive quite a bit of rubbish through the form and perhaps your request has been accidentally deleted along with some others.

That said, DTL VandenKeere was originally produced over 30 years ago and the idea was that the display version would be created first and the text version would be based on that. To be honest, I was never overly excited about the text version. Moreover, my research got in the way a bit and I decided to create a new version of DTL VandenKeere for the text sizes in which I incorporate my findings regarding Renaissance standardization and systematization. Next year should be feasible and actually necessary, as the typeface has been somewhat incomplete for quite some time.

Joshua Langman

Thank you so much for your response! I'm glad to hear there is a new version in the works, and I very much look forward to seeing it when it's ready.

konrad ritter

Dr. Blokland, I'm also a big fan of your VandenKeere. Any chance you could tell us a bit more about your new version of it? Consider our curiosity piqued.... 

LeMo aka PatternMan aka Frank E Blokland

The biggest difference between the display and the new text version will be the application of archetypal grid fitting to the latter. I believe that, on the whole, the atmosphere of Van den Keere’s source model was well represented more than thirty years ago. For this purpose, analogue artwork and then working drawings were created and the latter were then manually digitized in IKARUS format. Therefore, I will change some details, but not too many.

Furthermore, I will be careful not to polish the type to the refined standards of the likes of Granjon and Garamont. After all, Van den Keere’s type models exhibit a charming characteristic solidity in comparison. In principle the same can be said about Guyot, and also in the case of the new text version of the italic it will largely be archetypal grid fitting.

konrad ritter

Thank you, Dr Blokland. That all sounds very exciting. We look forward to seeing the end result. I for one also can't wait to see DTL Sheldon, hopefully in the near future.