Georgian

Rafael Saraiva

Hope you're all well and staying healhty. 

Can you recommend Georgian type designers who could help with consultancy work?

Many thanks

John Hudson

Yes. Contact Akaki Razmadze.

Rafael Saraiva

Many thanks John, will do

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

Yes, as well as Besarion Gugushvili.

You could also rummage through this:
http://luc.devroye.org/georgia.html

Rafael Saraiva

Yes, as well as Besarion Gugushvili.

Yes, I know him.

You could also rummage through this:
http://luc.devroye.org/georgia.html

I was looking more for a referral -- but thanks!  

Miles Newlyn

Raymon Bobar drew the incredibly beautiful Georgian for our New Hero

Rafael Saraiva

Thanks Miles. It looks beautiful indeed, do you have plans to add the script to New Hero at some point?

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

@Miles Newlyn I assume the Mtavruli matches the Latin cap height, but how do the vertical proportions of the Mkhedruli compare to the Latin lowercase's? BTW is Bobar a native in Georgian, or did he consult any?

John Savard

Hrant H. Papazian said:

@Miles Newlyn I assume the Mtavruli matches the Latin cap height, but how do the vertical proportions of the Mkhedruli compare to the Latin lowercase's?

I went to Adobe's site to look at a specimen of New Hero for English text.

What I found, by taking measurements in both cases, was:

In New Hero, the cap height is noticeably shorter than the ascender height of lower-case letters.

The ascender height of Mkhedruli is also significantly greater than the height of the Mtavruli. However, the ratio between the Georgian "x-height" and the Mkhedruli ascender height is about the same as the ratio between the English x-height and the cap height, not the ascender height.

So the vertical proportions of Mkhedruli are not a slavish copy of the Latin.

Miles Newlyn

@Rafael Saraiva I've added it to New Hero. Are you interested in it?

Miles Newlyn

@Hrant H. Papazian Raymond is Romanian. We didn't use any Georgian consultant.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

@John Savard I was surprised by your measurements, so I did my own, and assuming mine aren't wrong, it actually looks like the Mtavruli is matching the Latin caps, and the Mkhedruli's proportions are matching those of the Latin's lowercase. Which is in fact the usual approach in non-Latin "translation"... but depending on the script might not give good results. In Georgian for example only five letters out of almost 40 are confined to the "x-height", so the space is sort of wasted (I mean in terms of readability) by making it large. Gotta say it @Miles Newlyn to me this gives it the same problem as Sylfaen's Georgian (which I cite mostly because it's so common in usage) in that it's closer to a display face than its textier Latin. So, great on its own, but harder to use optimally as a system.

Miles Newlyn

@John Savard @Hrant H. Papazian Don't use Raymond if you think his work isn't good enough. Simple.
In my designs you'll always find non-Latin to be subservient to the Latin counterpart's metrics and formal qualities. Latin is my master script.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

@Miles Newlyn Well the transparency is certainly appreciated.

John Savard

Miles Newlyn said:

@John Savard @Hrant H. Papazian Don't use Raymond if you think his work isn't good enough. Simple.
In my designs you'll always find non-Latin to be subservient to the Latin counterpart's metrics and formal qualities. Latin is my master script.

I was surprised you mentioned my name, at first, because I didn't write anything critical of the Georgian typeface that is the subject of this thread. But then I saw the second paragraph - and you are correct that even if there's a lot on which Hrant and I don't see eye-to-eye, I am inclined, in general, to favor, when designing a typeface for any language, doing so in keeping with the spirit of the script as internalized by the associated language's native speakers.

The thing is, given the widespread prevalence of Latinization in the world - some of which is rightly something to be deplored - maybe the native speakers of many languages aren't quite as picky as they're imagined to be.

And let us say you are designing a new typeface which you are hoping to see gain worldwide use. Let's call it "Helvetica" to suggest just how worldwide the ambition might be.

Wouldn't it be obvious that...

the first thing to do is to make the typeface be as beautiful, and work as well, with the Latin script, used by the parts of the world with the most economic activity, as possible?

and, as other scripts are added to fonts for the typeface, the next thing to do is to ensure that they're not unrelated, making the fonts look like an amateur job, but instead see to it that all the glyphs in the font are designed to be organically of the same typeface?

This does mean that the other scripts are, in a sense, subordinate to Latin, but that doesn't mean, if the x-height for Latin is wrong for Georgian or Armenian, that the same x-height has to be used for all scripts. Finding the right balance, tastefully seeing each language's script through the lens of the habits of its users - these things are, or at least so I would think, a part of the type designer's craft.

There certainly is a place for typefaces designed from within a particular script culture with an effort to shut out all possible contamination from outside influences. But while I respect such projects as important, I do not believe this is the only legitimate way to put a non-Latin script into print.

Miles Newlyn

hi @John Savard, I agree with you 100%. I'm glad that there are designers such as yourself that don't Latinize scripts. I'm one of the ones that do, initially because my clients request it, but now as a matter or course.