modern text font without kerning or with just a few kerning pairs

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Lukas Horn
Lukas Horn Posts: 14
edited February 2020 in Technique and Theory
Helllo,
Do you know a modern text font that isn’t using kerning pairs at all? Or maybe just a very very few?
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  • Jacques Le Bailly
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    The Original version of Trinité.
  • Nick Shinn
    Nick Shinn Posts: 2,158
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    I designed Bellefair with none. Like Georgia, targeting screen use. While original, it’s classic, not modern in the sense of style.
  • Erwin Denissen
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    I designed Bellefair with none. Like Georgia, targeting screen use. While original, it’s classic, not modern in the sense of style.
    Both Georgia and Bellefair have over 5000 kerning pairs.
  • Nick Shinn
    Nick Shinn Posts: 2,158
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    Both Georgia and Bellefair have over 5000 kerning pairs.

    I didn’t know that, I certainly didn’t put them there! 
    That wasn’t my intention. 
    It is a Google font, though, so that might explain where the kerns came from.
  • Florian Hardwig
    Florian Hardwig Posts: 264
    edited March 2020
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    What version of Georgia are you looking at? Georgia v5.00 has zero kerning. Georgia Pro includes kerning.
    Bellefair v1.003 indeed has kerning. Unfortunately it’s not been added in a systematic way, e.g. you’ll find lots of questionable results of class kerning like an uncalled-for +100 for unlikey pairs like ťħ, while common and semi-common things like f’ f” Yv or Yg were left unkerned. I’m sympathetic to both Nick’s original idea of designing without kerning, “old style”, as well as to a standard well-kerned font. This is neither fish nor fowl, alas.
  • Erwin Denissen
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    I have Georgia version 5.59 (modified date 2017-10-17) running Windows 10.

    Yes, I also noticed some strange kerning pairs in Bellefair, e.g.

      subtable "Subtable 1" {
        pos P V <24> <0>;
        pos f asterisk <48> <0>;
        pos f question <72> <0>;
      }
    It seems modern text fonts without kerning are hard to find!
  • Johannes Neumeier
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    Just a comment, but at least the Bellefair source has only a handful of Latin kerning class pairs, and a few Hebrew kerning pairs. Of course expanding kerning classes to all the possible individual pair kerns makes the number explode.
  • Erwin Denissen
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    What's strange about those kern pairs, Erwin? A positive kern between f* and f? is very frequently needed.
    You are right, the kern pairs seem fine, it is just awkward that the sub table only contains 3 items. Other lookups contain useless items, here are four:
    lookup PairAdjustment3 {
      lookupflags RightToLeft IgnoreMarks;

      subtable "Subtable 1" {
        pos space "resh-hebr" <0> <0>;
      }
      subtable "Subtable 2" {
        pos "bet-hebr" "yod-hebr" <-20 0 -20 0> <0>;
        pos "bet-hebr" "shin-hebr" <-10 0 -10 0> <0>;
        pos "gimel-hebr" space <0 0 0 0> <0>;
        pos "gimel-hebr" slash <0 0 0 0> <0>;
        pos "zayin-hebr" "punctuationgeresh-hebr" <0 0 0 0> <0>;

    It seems both kern and mark features have been added later, as those are only included in the default languages.