What non-English ligatures are there?

Eimantas Paškonis
Eimantas Paškonis Posts: 91
in Technique and Theory
Like ïï, fð, fþ etc.
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Comments

  • Nick Shinn
    Nick Shinn Posts: 2,216
    Brasíl might need one in some serif fonts.
  • James Puckett
    James Puckett Posts: 1,998
    fð seems to be a fairly rare combination, although I did not check it against a list of names. It would certainly be a fun ligature.
  • Ermin Međedović
    Ermin Međedović Posts: 81
    ąj (aogonek+j)
  • Jack Jennings
    Jack Jennings Posts: 151
    Another useful thing to know would be how to solve some of these; do you combine the glyphs, or do you try and separate them? I imagine that /aogonek+/j might be confusing if they were redesigned to collide more gracefully, and you'd probably want to push the ogonek to the left or the j to the right… is that correct?

    fþ probably follows fl, but does fð want to combine, or separate? does ïï combine to three dots, or…?

    There's probably not a right or wrong for some of these, I suppose.

    [off topic:] ïï, fð, fþ all seem like the worst letter combinations to try and pronounce…
  • Nick Shinn
    Nick Shinn Posts: 2,216
    AFAIK, the sequence ąj does not exist in Polish.
    The sequence ą, is more relevant.
  • Ralf
    Ralf Posts: 170
    So the question is: which letter pairs are problematic in a certain language and might be replaced with a specific ligature oder contextual replacement?

    For German: f + Umlaut (ü/ö/ä)
  • Nick Shinn
    Nick Shinn Posts: 2,216
    Thanks, I didn’t know that.
  • Max Phillips
    Max Phillips Posts: 474
    I'm not sure a ligature is the best solution though.
    Even a non-connecting ligature?
  • Craig Eliason
    Craig Eliason Posts: 1,440
    Even a non-connecting ligature?
    Aren't in most cases contextual alternates a neater solution to non-connecting ligatures?
  • John Hudson
    John Hudson Posts: 3,229
    It's impossible to talk about ligatures existing independent of typeface style, so unless one has a particular ą and j to consider one can't determine what the most appropriate solution will be.
  • Thomas Phinney
    Thomas Phinney Posts: 2,897
    > Aren't in most cases contextual alternates a neater solution to non-connecting ligatures?

    Often, yes. But it depends on the typeface....
  • Deleted Account
    Deleted Account Posts: 739
    IJ?
  • Max Phillips
    Max Phillips Posts: 474
    Does anyone use the German c_k and c_h anymore?
  • Eimantas Paškonis
    Eimantas Paškonis Posts: 91
    edited April 2013
    @Max: What I have in mind are problematic pairs that need solving, not decorative ones.
  • Paul van der Laan
    Paul van der Laan Posts: 242
    Indeed. IJ is not a problematic pair, for instance.
  • John Hudson
    John Hudson Posts: 3,229
    The German c_h and c_k combinations seem to have entirely fallen out of use in 'antiqua' (roman) typography, where they never looked entirely comfortable anyway. I believe they're still standard for correct blackletter orthography, though.
  • Christian Munk
    Christian Munk Posts: 11
    fð is quite a common combination of letters in Icelandic, Faroese and Old Norse. Take the word hefði "had". The ligature doesn't seem to be very common, but it is included in at least this book: http://fontsinuse.com/uses/3849/avisaga-biography

    And in the font Inknut Antiqua: http://clauseggers.github.io/

    Of course I can see that this discussion took place a couple of years ago, so I don't blame anyone for not knowing about these cases. I'm just bringing this topic up to date, because I recently fell over the letter combination, and thought it needed a ligature.
  • Christian Thalmann
    Christian Thalmann Posts: 1,988
    Got all of those covered. :blush:Though admittedly ïï collides in Bold. Who uses that, anyway?

    BTW, if you want to support High Valyrian, check whether Qy and Qȳ collide.  :wink: 
  • Christian Munk
    Christian Munk Posts: 11
    Another overlooked ligature is the rz-ligature. Not that it is absolutely nescessary, but it can be so elegant when done well. I know I've seen one, but I can't find any pictures of it at the moment. And I guess it's primarily Polish that benefits from such a ligature.
  • Christian Thalmann
    Christian Thalmann Posts: 1,988
    Oh, that reminds me... I do have those in one of my previous fonts. :blush: 
  • jakob_runge
    jakob_runge Posts: 18
    edited September 2015
    Maybe this is a helpful source: http://www.urtd.net/x/cod/
  • Michał Jarociński
    Michał Jarociński Posts: 10
    Christian Munk said:
    Another overlooked ligature is the rz-ligature. Not that it is absolutely nescessary, but it can be so elegant when done well. I know I've seen one, but I can't find any pictures of it at the moment. And I guess it's primarily Polish that benefits from such a ligature.
    I wouldn't strive for this. In Poland we don't use ligatures in everyday life. Maybe on some display fancy typefaces...  Beside r_z ligature there could be also c_z and s_z. 
  • Michael Rafailyk
    Michael Rafailyk Posts: 146
    edited November 2021
    Jack Jennings said:
    ïï, fð, fþ all seem like the worst letter combinations to try and pronounce…
    її in Ukrainian is a real word that means her and sounds quite melodic :)
  • Paul Hanslow
    Paul Hanslow Posts: 175
    edited November 2021
    The double /lslash/ can also occur in Polish buts it's extremely rare, such as surnames like Kołłątaj and Jagiełło. I haven't seen any examples of this occurring in printed texts but handwritten examples could possibly have a single wavy styled slash located at the top of both /l/ ascenders. relevant TD link
  • Helmut Wollmersdorfer
    Helmut Wollmersdorfer Posts: 212
    John Hudson said:
    The German c_h and c_k combinations seem to have entirely fallen out of use in 'antiqua' (roman) typography, where they never looked entirely comfortable anyway. I believe they're still standard for correct blackletter orthography, though.
    If someone likes to use Fraktur, he should stick to the old traditions. IMHO Fraktur is hard to read fast. But it has some place in advertisements, beer labels and signs of pubs.

    Unifraktur Maguntia  http://unifraktur.sourceforge.net/ supports:



    Some fonts also have longs_c_h, longs_s, longs_longs_k, longs_longs_t, t_t.
  • Igor Freiberger
    Igor Freiberger Posts: 280
    This is the repertoire of ligatures I'm using in my font projects:


  • John Hudson
    John Hudson Posts: 3,229
    Igor, you could handle that set with a much smaller number of contextual ligating glyphs.
  • Peter Constable
    Peter Constable Posts: 210
    John Hudson said:
    Igor, you could handle that set with a much smaller number of contextual ligating glyphs.
    Could you elaborate?

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