Elemaints - A Serif Family with Optical Sizes

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Comments

  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    @Daniel Benjamin Miller Yes, I am still working on this project. However, I have invested much more time in developping font tools/math such as this and this (and I am still working on the maths as I am still not satisified with the results).
    Every now and then, I have worked on Elemaints Bold Caption. Because it has to work as master  with the other two masters (Caption and Display), this also includes changes to Caption and Display. 
    Some glyphs that I have been working on since October:

    Accents and special characters:

    Greek:


    As always, I am glad to hear advice and suggestions.
  • John Savard
    John Savard Posts: 1,126
    edited March 2020
    I wish you every success in devising this typeface; it looks beautiful to me, and as well, I think it is the sort of choice that is needed for mathematical typesetting.
    The first version of your bold for the Latin glyphs looked to me like one that had been revised and polished many times.
    It's too late to change now, but one thing I would have noted is that the "Siddur" style of Hebrew, instead of the Frank Ruhl style, is more common when Hebrew is used, like Greek, as an additional source of characters in mathematics. However, the Frank Ruhl style may actually be a better fit to the rest of your typeface.
    You have noted that you are leaving the kerning of the characters until later, but the only thing I noticed about your face that seemed to need improvement was that some of the oldstyle tabular figures did not look to be properly centered. However, when I looked again, I couldn't decide which digits had a problem, and instead it seems as though there is no problem, and I did not look carefully enough at first.
    Because it is already so good, your fear that if you released an early version of the typeface, it would be spread all over the Internet and used in its unfinished form is indeed reasonable.
  • Daniel Benjamin Miller
    Daniel Benjamin Miller Posts: 117
    What I love about this typeface it is that it is going to be an open-source type system. We have computer modern, yes. But this will provide a similarly full-featured set with a really nice design too. Too many open source fonts lack any interesting features or math support.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    Thank you for your kind words, @Thomas Phinney. This keeps me motivated to keep working on.

    Since the last entry, I have (more or less) finished the bold faces. Now I am facing the italic faces. This is a first attempt, which still in very early stage; spacing and kerning is not done yet (upper: Elemaints Caption Italic, lower: Elemaints Caption):


    You may have noticed the influence of Bitstream Charter (upper: Elemaints Caption Italic, lower: Bitstream Charter):

    I know, that I will have to fiddle again the italic angles and I will keep on working on the italics anyway. However, if you have already any suggestions or tips, I am glad to hear them!

  • Christian Thalmann
    Christian Thalmann Posts: 1,983
    I'm getting the impression of a very wide stride for an italic. On closer inspection, it might mostly have to do with the /u/ and, to a lesser degree, /n/ and /o/ being wider than I'd expect.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    edited September 2020
    @Christian Thalmann True, thanks! I have made the glyphs now narrower:

  • Craig Eliason
    Craig Eliason Posts: 1,436
    Is the color intended to be even between roman and italic? To my eye the italics look relatively light, increasingly as the optical size goes down.
    I also wonder if the caption cuts could be chunkier (lower contrast). But you've certainly looked at this at target sizes more than I have.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    edited September 2020
    @Craig Eliason Yes, the color is intended to be even between roman and italic because roman and italic will be mixed in math style (variables mostly italic, numbers mostly roman).
    The font parameters of the italic faces are not yet quite set, I can easily change them now. I have made them darker now (95 % of the stem width of the roman stem width, which is at the upper end of the ratios compared to other type families). About "chunkier": There is an optical size below caption called "tiny" which has rather low contrast in my opinion.
    However, you are not the first to mention that the lower optical sizes of the Roman faces could be more robust (see some posts before). I have made corrections to the roman faces since then, but Elemaints is still lighter compared to Arno (but has similar darkness as Minion, Stempel Garamond, ...).
    For the italic faces, i have made now a comparison between different math typefaces for n to the power of n. The basis is set in regular size whereas the exponent is set in a caption font. To me, the example of Elemaints seems to be okay (altough a darker caption font may fit even better to be honest).
    (The Computer Modern scan is from The Metafontbook and probably shows the intendended darkness by Donald E. Knuth. The digitized Computer Modern fonts are much lighter.)
  • RichardW
    RichardW Posts: 100
    Have you tested the ℚ on mathematicians?  The curve of the inner vertical bars stopped me from recognising it as being the rationals; i just saw it as a fancy 'Q'.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    edited September 2020
    @RichardW Well, I AM a mathematician :) But yes: Upon your comment, I have tested the ℚ with other mathematicians and they could easily recognize it. Maybe you are more used to the straight double stroke fonts (see the example left of the following picture)? For comparison: AMS Symbols 10 (the blackboard bold font by the American Math Society, which is often used as standard in LaTeX files) looks quite similar as Elemaints Regular.



    To the right, I have added a variant, which uses more superness for the inner arcs. Do you think this would fit better?
  • Vasil Stanev
    Vasil Stanev Posts: 775
    Just wanted to say that every letterform in this topic is a delight. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good, though. :)
  • RichardW
    RichardW Posts: 100
    I am used to two straight strokes - that's how I write it.  The 'superness' variant looks better - because at small sizes the curves go away.  For me, plain text on this site has a version with straight strokes, and I recognise that instantly, without having to use the assumption that it's a proper noun denoting a set.  Sometimes the names of these sets are written with just bold capitals, and it then takes me longer to grasp what they mean.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    @RichardW Two straight strokes were the familiar way in my college days, then I became familiar with the curved versions at university and the (real) bold versions in books (which I still don't like). I have now increased the superness of the inner bowls for all faces:

  • RichardW
    RichardW Posts: 100
    I think that is an improvement.

    I too dislike the use of the bold letters for these sets of numbers.  They just don't work as well as clearly distinct symbols.
  • Piotr Grochowski
    Piotr Grochowski Posts: 91
    What character set are you targetting that has ℂℕℚℝℤ in it? SECS? Subset2? Or is it your own character set?

  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    edited September 2020
    @Piotr Grochowski It is an own character set. Besides full Underware Latin+ and nearly full polytonic Greek support, all relevant LaTeX encodings for math are contained:
    MSBM (math symbols B encoding by the American Math Society)


    MSAM (math symbols A encoding by the American Math Society)

    OMS (TeX Math Symbol as defined by Donald Knuth)


    OML (TeX Math Text as defined by Donald Knuth)


    OMX (TeX Math Extended Symbol as defined by Donald Knuth - they have mostly height 0 since the TeX Metric Files cannot handle too many different heights and depths)

  • Piotr Grochowski
    Piotr Grochowski Posts: 91
    Which of the character sets mentioned in https://unicodesubsets.miraheze.org/wiki/Logic_table_of_supersets does it contain and which it does not (if every single character in a character set is found, it contains the character set, if at least one character is not there it does NOT contain the character set)
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    @Piotr Grochowski I think ASCII, ISO 8859-1, CP1252 and MES-1 are covered. Everything containing cyrillic is not covered at the moment. I do not know a tool where font encoding coverages can be checked automatically but if you want to check: Here are the hexadecimal unicodes of my fonts.
    20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2a 2b 2c 2d 2e 2f 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 3a 3b 3c 3d 3e 3f 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 4a 4b 4c 4d 4e 4f 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 5a 5b 5c 5d 5e 5f 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 6a 6b 6c 6d 6e 6f 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 7a 7b 7c 7d 7e a1 a2 a3 a4 a5 a6 a7 a8 a9 aa ab ac ad ae af b0 b1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7 b8 b9 ba bb bc bd be bf c0 c1 c2 c3 c4 c5 c6 c7 c8 c9 ca cb cc cd ce cf d0 d1 d2 d3 d4 d5 d6 d7 d8 d9 da db dc dd de df e0 e1 e2 e3 e4 e5 e6 e7 e8 e9 ea eb ec ed ee ef f0 f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 f8 f9 fa fb fc fd fe ff 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 10a 10b 10c 10d 10e 10f 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 11a 11b 11c 11d 11e 11f 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 12a 12b 12c 12d 12e 12f 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 13a 13b 13c 13d 13e 13f 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 14a 14b 14c 14d 14e 14f 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 15a 15b 15c 15d 15e 15f 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 16a 16b 16c 16d 16e 16f 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 17a 17b 17c 17d 17e 17f 18f 192 19d 1e6 1e7 1ea 1eb 1fa 1fb 1fc 1fd 1fe 1ff 218 219 21a 21b 232 233 237 259 272 2c6 2c7 2d8 2d9 2da 2db 2dc 2dd 300 301 302 303 304 306 307 308 30a 30b 30c 30f 311 312 315 323 324 325 326 327 328 330 335 361 37a 384 385 386 387 388 389 38a 38c 38e 38f 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 39a 39b 39c 39d 39e 39f 3a0 3a1 3a3 3a4 3a5 3a6 3a7 3a8 3a9 3aa 3ab 3ac 3ad 3ae 3af 3b0 3b1 3b2 3b3 3b4 3b5 3b6 3b7 3b8 3b9 3ba 3bb 3bc 3bd 3be 3bf 3c0 3c1 3c2 3c3 3c4 3c5 3c6 3c7 3c8 3c9 3ca 3cb 3cc 3cd 3ce 3d1 3d5 3d6 3dc 3f0 3f1 3f5 3f6 5d2 66a e3f 1e80 1e81 1e82 1e83 1e84 1e85 1e9e 1ea0 1ea1 1eb8 1eb9 1ebc 1ebd 1eca 1ecb 1ecc 1ecd 1ee4 1ee5 1ef2 1ef3 1ef8 1ef9 1f00 1f01 1f02 1f03 1f04 1f05 1f06 1f07 1f08 1f09 1f0a 1f0b 1f0c 1f0d 1f0e 1f0f 1f10 1f11 1f12 1f13 1f14 1f15 1f18 1f19 1f1a 1f1b 1f1c 1f1d 1f20 1f21 1f22 1f23 1f24 1f25 1f26 1f27 1f28 1f29 1f2a 1f2b 1f2c 1f2d 1f2e 1f2f 1f30 1f31 1f32 1f33 1f34 1f35 1f36 1f37 1f38 1f39 1f3a 1f3b 1f3c 1f3d 1f3e 1f3f 1f40 1f41 1f42 1f43 1f44 1f45 1f48 1f49 1f4a 1f4b 1f4c 1f4d 1f50 1f51 1f52 1f53 1f54 1f55 1f56 1f57 1f59 1f5b 1f5d 1f5f 1f60 1f61 1f62 1f63 1f64 1f65 1f66 1f67 1f68 1f69 1f6a 1f6b 1f6c 1f6d 1f6e 1f6f 1f70 1f71 1f72 1f73 1f74 1f75 1f76 1f77 1f78 1f79 1f7a 1f7b 1f7c 1f7d 1f80 1f81 1f82 1f83 1f84 1f85 1f86 1f87 1f88 1f89 1f8a 1f8b 1f8c 1f8d 1f8e 1f8f 1f90 1f91 1f92 1f93 1f94 1f95 1f96 1f97 1f98 1f99 1f9a 1f9b 1f9c 1f9d 1f9e 1f9f 1fa0 1fa1 1fa2 1fa3 1fa4 1fa5 1fa6 1fa7 1fa8 1fa9 1faa 1fab 1fac 1fad 1fae 1faf 1fb0 1fb1 1fb2 1fb3 1fb4 1fb6 1fb7 1fb8 1fb9 1fba 1fbb 1fbc 1fbd 1fbe 1fbf 1fc0 1fc1 1fc2 1fc3 1fc4 1fc6 1fc7 1fc8 1fc9 1fca 1fcb 1fcc 1fcd 1fce 1fcf 1fd0 1fd1 1fd2 1fd3 1fd6 1fd7 1fd8 1fd9 1fda 1fdb 1fdd 1fde 1fdf 1fe0 1fe1 1fe2 1fe3 1fe4 1fe5 1fe6 1fe7 1fe8 1fe9 1fea 1feb 1fec 1fed 1fee 1fef 1ff2 1ff3 1ff4 1ff6 1ff7 1ff8 1ff9 1ffa 1ffb 1ffc 1ffd 1ffe 200b 200c 2010 2012 2013 2014 2016 2018 2019 201a 201c 201d 201e 2020 2021 2022 2026 2030 2031 2032 2035 2039 203a 203b 203d 2040 2044 2045 2046 2070 2074 2075 2076 2077 2078 2079 2080 2081 2082 2083 2084 2085 2086 2087 2088 2089 20a1 20a4 20a6 20a9 20ab 20ac 20b1 20b2 20d7 20dd 2102 2103 210b 210d 210f 2110 2111 2112 2113 2115 2116 2117 2118 2119 211a 211b 211c 211d 211e 2120 2122 2124 2126 2127 212c 212e 2130 2131 2132 2133 2135 2136 2137 2138 2141 2190 2191 2192 2193 2194 2195 2196 2197 2198 2199 219a 219b 219e 21a0 21a2 21a3 21ab 21ac 21ad 21ae 21b0 21b1 21b6 21b7 21ba 21bb 21bc 21bd 21be 21bf 21c0 21c1 21c2 21c3 21c4 21c6 21c7 21c8 21c9 21ca 21cb 21cc 21cd 21ce 21cf 21d0 21d1 21d2 21d3 21d4 21d5 21da 21db 21dd 2200 2201 2202 2203 2204 2205 2206 2207 2208 220b 220f 2210 2211 2212 2213 2214 2217 2218 2219 221a 221d 221e 2220 2221 2222 2223 2224 2225 2226 2227 2228 2229 222a 222b 222e 2234 2235 223c 223d 2240 2241 2242 2243 2247 2248 224a 224d 224e 224f 2251 2252 2253 2256 2257 225c 2261 2264 2265 2266 2267 2268 2269 226a 226b 226c 226e 226f 2270 2271 2272 2273 2276 2277 227a 227b 227c 227d 227e 227f 2280 2281 2282 2283 2286 2287 2288 2289 228a 228b 228e 228f 2290 2291 2292 2293 2294 2295 2296 2297 2298 2299 229a 229b 229d 229e 229f 22a0 22a1 22a2 22a3 22a4 22a5 22a6 22a8 22a9 22aa 22ab 22ac 22ad 22ae 22af 22b2 22b3 22b4 22b5 22b8 22ba 22bb 22bc 22c0 22c1 22c2 22c3 22c4 22c5 22c6 22c7 22c9 22ca 22cb 22cc 22cd 22ce 22cf 22d0 22d1 22d2 22d3 22d4 22d6 22d7 22d8 22d9 22da 22db 22de 22df 22e0 22e1 22e6 22e7 22e8 22e9 22ea 22eb 22ec 22ed 2308 2309 230a 230b 2322 2323 2329 232a 239b 239c 239d 239e 239f 23a0 23a1 23a2 23a3 23a4 23a5 23a6 23a7 23a8 23a9 23aa 23ab 23ac 23ad 23b7 2422 2423 24c7 24c8 250c 2510 2514 2518 2571 2572 25a0 25a1 25aa 25b3 25b4 25b5 25b8 25b9 25bd 25be 25bf 25c2 25c3 25c6 25c7 25cb 25e6 2605 2660 2661 2662 2663 2665 2666 266a 266d 266e 266f 26ad 26ae 2713 271d 2720 27c2 27e8 27e9 27ea 27eb 2a00 2a01 2a02 2a03 2a04 2a05 2a06 2a5e 2a7d 2a7e 2a85 2a86 2a87 2a88 2a8b 2a8c 2a95 2a96 2aaf 2ab0 2ab5 2ab6 2ab7 2ab8 2ab9 2aba 2ac5 2ac6 2e18 2e40 e000 e001 e002 e003 e004 e005 e006 e007 e008 e009 e00a e00b e132 e133 fb00 fb01 fb02 fb03 fb04 1d49c 1d49e 1d49f 1d4a2 1d4a5 1d4a6 1d4a9 1d4aa 1d4ab 1d4ac 1d4ae 1d4af 1d4b0 1d4b1 1d4b2 1d4b3 1d4b4 1d4b5 1d538 1d539 1d53b 1d53c 1d53d 1d53e 1d540 1d541 1d542 1d543 1d544 1d546 1d547 1d54a 1d54b 1d54c 1d54d 1d54e 1d54f 1d550 1d55c 1f12f 1f652 1f7c9



  • Piotr Grochowski
    Piotr Grochowski Posts: 91
    edited September 2020 
    <br>
    Linus Romer said:
    @Piotr Grochowski I think ASCII, ISO 8859-1, CP1252 and MES-1 are covered. Everything containing cyrillic is not covered at the moment. I do not know a tool where font encoding coverages can be checked automatically but if you want to check: Here are the hexadecimal unicodes of my fonts.
    20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2a 2b 2c 2d 2e 2f 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 3a 3b 3c 3d 3e 3f 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 4a 4b 4c 4d 4e 4f 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 5a 5b 5c 5d 5e 5f 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 6a 6b 6c 6d 6e 6f 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 7a 7b 7c 7d 7e a1 a2 a3 a4 a5 a6 a7 a8 a9 aa ab ac ad ae af b0 b1 b2 b3 b4 b5 b6 b7 b8 b9 ba bb bc bd be bf c0 c1 c2 c3 c4 c5 c6 c7 c8 c9 ca cb cc cd ce cf d0 d1 d2 d3 d4 d5 d6 d7 d8 d9 da db dc dd de df e0 e1 e2 e3 e4 e5 e6 e7 e8 e9 ea eb ec ed ee ef f0 f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 f8 f9 fa fb fc fd fe ff 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 10a 10b 10c 10d 10e 10f 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 11a 11b 11c 11d 11e 11f 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 12a 12b 12c 12d 12e 12f 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 13a 13b 13c 13d 13e 13f 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 14a 14b 14c 14d 14e 14f 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 15a 15b 15c 15d 15e 15f 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 16a 16b 16c 16d 16e 16f 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 17a 17b 17c 17d 17e 17f 18f 192 19d 1e6 1e7 1ea 1eb 1fa 1fb 1fc 1fd 1fe 1ff 218 219 21a 21b 232 233 237 259 272 2c6 2c7 2d8 2d9 2da 2db 2dc 2dd 300 301 302 303 304 306 307 308 30a 30b 30c 30f 311 312 315 323 324 325 326 327 328 330 335 361 37a 384 385 386 387 388 389 38a 38c 38e 38f 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 39a 39b 39c 39d 39e 39f 3a0 3a1 3a3 3a4 3a5 3a6 3a7 3a8 3a9 3aa 3ab 3ac 3ad 3ae 3af 3b0 3b1 3b2 3b3 3b4 3b5 3b6 3b7 3b8 3b9 3ba 3bb 3bc 3bd 3be 3bf 3c0 3c1 3c2 3c3 3c4 3c5 3c6 3c7 3c8 3c9 3ca 3cb 3cc 3cd 3ce 3d1 3d5 3d6 3dc 3f0 3f1 3f5 3f6 5d2 66a e3f 1e80 1e81 1e82 1e83 1e84 1e85 1e9e 1ea0 1ea1 1eb8 1eb9 1ebc 1ebd 1eca 1ecb 1ecc 1ecd 1ee4 1ee5 1ef2 1ef3 1ef8 1ef9 1f00 1f01 1f02 1f03 1f04 1f05 1f06 1f07 1f08 1f09 1f0a 1f0b 1f0c 1f0d 1f0e 1f0f 1f10 1f11 1f12 1f13 1f14 1f15 1f18 1f19 1f1a 1f1b 1f1c 1f1d 1f20 1f21 1f22 1f23 1f24 1f25 1f26 1f27 1f28 1f29 1f2a 1f2b 1f2c 1f2d 1f2e 1f2f 1f30 1f31 1f32 1f33 1f34 1f35 1f36 1f37 1f38 1f39 1f3a 1f3b 1f3c 1f3d 1f3e 1f3f 1f40 1f41 1f42 1f43 1f44 1f45 1f48 1f49 1f4a 1f4b 1f4c 1f4d 1f50 1f51 1f52 1f53 1f54 1f55 1f56 1f57 1f59 1f5b 1f5d 1f5f 1f60 1f61 1f62 1f63 1f64 1f65 1f66 1f67 1f68 1f69 1f6a 1f6b 1f6c 1f6d 1f6e 1f6f 1f70 1f71 1f72 1f73 1f74 1f75 1f76 1f77 1f78 1f79 1f7a 1f7b 1f7c 1f7d 1f80 1f81 1f82 1f83 1f84 1f85 1f86 1f87 1f88 1f89 1f8a 1f8b 1f8c 1f8d 1f8e 1f8f 1f90 1f91 1f92 1f93 1f94 1f95 1f96 1f97 1f98 1f99 1f9a 1f9b 1f9c 1f9d 1f9e 1f9f 1fa0 1fa1 1fa2 1fa3 1fa4 1fa5 1fa6 1fa7 1fa8 1fa9 1faa 1fab 1fac 1fad 1fae 1faf 1fb0 1fb1 1fb2 1fb3 1fb4 1fb6 1fb7 1fb8 1fb9 1fba 1fbb 1fbc 1fbd 1fbe 1fbf 1fc0 1fc1 1fc2 1fc3 1fc4 1fc6 1fc7 1fc8 1fc9 1fca 1fcb 1fcc 1fcd 1fce 1fcf 1fd0 1fd1 1fd2 1fd3 1fd6 1fd7 1fd8 1fd9 1fda 1fdb 1fdd 1fde 1fdf 1fe0 1fe1 1fe2 1fe3 1fe4 1fe5 1fe6 1fe7 1fe8 1fe9 1fea 1feb 1fec 1fed 1fee 1fef 1ff2 1ff3 1ff4 1ff6 1ff7 1ff8 1ff9 1ffa 1ffb 1ffc 1ffd 1ffe 200b 200c 2010 2012 2013 2014 2016 2018 2019 201a 201c 201d 201e 2020 2021 2022 2026 2030 2031 2032 2035 2039 203a 203b 203d 2040 2044 2045 2046 2070 2074 2075 2076 2077 2078 2079 2080 2081 2082 2083 2084 2085 2086 2087 2088 2089 20a1 20a4 20a6 20a9 20ab 20ac 20b1 20b2 20d7 20dd 2102 2103 210b 210d 210f 2110 2111 2112 2113 2115 2116 2117 2118 2119 211a 211b 211c 211d 211e 2120 2122 2124 2126 2127 212c 212e 2130 2131 2132 2133 2135 2136 2137 2138 2141 2190 2191 2192 2193 2194 2195 2196 2197 2198 2199 219a 219b 219e 21a0 21a2 21a3 21ab 21ac 21ad 21ae 21b0 21b1 21b6 21b7 21ba 21bb 21bc 21bd 21be 21bf 21c0 21c1 21c2 21c3 21c4 21c6 21c7 21c8 21c9 21ca 21cb 21cc 21cd 21ce 21cf 21d0 21d1 21d2 21d3 21d4 21d5 21da 21db 21dd 2200 2201 2202 2203 2204 2205 2206 2207 2208 220b 220f 2210 2211 2212 2213 2214 2217 2218 2219 221a 221d 221e 2220 2221 2222 2223 2224 2225 2226 2227 2228 2229 222a 222b 222e 2234 2235 223c 223d 2240 2241 2242 2243 2247 2248 224a 224d 224e 224f 2251 2252 2253 2256 2257 225c 2261 2264 2265 2266 2267 2268 2269 226a 226b 226c 226e 226f 2270 2271 2272 2273 2276 2277 227a 227b 227c 227d 227e 227f 2280 2281 2282 2283 2286 2287 2288 2289 228a 228b 228e 228f 2290 2291 2292 2293 2294 2295 2296 2297 2298 2299 229a 229b 229d 229e 229f 22a0 22a1 22a2 22a3 22a4 22a5 22a6 22a8 22a9 22aa 22ab 22ac 22ad 22ae 22af 22b2 22b3 22b4 22b5 22b8 22ba 22bb 22bc 22c0 22c1 22c2 22c3 22c4 22c5 22c6 22c7 22c9 22ca 22cb 22cc 22cd 22ce 22cf 22d0 22d1 22d2 22d3 22d4 22d6 22d7 22d8 22d9 22da 22db 22de 22df 22e0 22e1 22e6 22e7 22e8 22e9 22ea 22eb 22ec 22ed 2308 2309 230a 230b 2322 2323 2329 232a 239b 239c 239d 239e 239f 23a0 23a1 23a2 23a3 23a4 23a5 23a6 23a7 23a8 23a9 23aa 23ab 23ac 23ad 23b7 2422 2423 24c7 24c8 250c 2510 2514 2518 2571 2572 25a0 25a1 25aa 25b3 25b4 25b5 25b8 25b9 25bd 25be 25bf 25c2 25c3 25c6 25c7 25cb 25e6 2605 2660 2661 2662 2663 2665 2666 266a 266d 266e 266f 26ad 26ae 2713 271d 2720 27c2 27e8 27e9 27ea 27eb 2a00 2a01 2a02 2a03 2a04 2a05 2a06 2a5e 2a7d 2a7e 2a85 2a86 2a87 2a88 2a8b 2a8c 2a95 2a96 2aaf 2ab0 2ab5 2ab6 2ab7 2ab8 2ab9 2aba 2ac5 2ac6 2e18 2e40 e000 e001 e002 e003 e004 e005 e006 e007 e008 e009 e00a e00b e132 e133 fb00 fb01 fb02 fb03 fb04 1d49c 1d49e 1d49f 1d4a2 1d4a5 1d4a6 1d4a9 1d4aa 1d4ab 1d4ac 1d4ae 1d4af 1d4b0 1d4b1 1d4b2 1d4b3 1d4b4 1d4b5 1d538 1d539 1d53b 1d53c 1d53d 1d53e 1d540 1d541 1d542 1d543 1d544 1d546 1d547 1d54a 1d54b 1d54c 1d54d 1d54e 1d54f 1d550 1d55c 1f12f 1f652 1f7c9



    After analyzing for runs of consecutive code points it looks like this:

    00  20-7e a1-ff
    01  00-7f 8f 92 9d e6-e7 ea-eb fa-ff
    02  18-1b 32-33 37 59 72 c6-c7 d8-dd
    03  00-04 06-08 0a-0c 0f 11-12 15 23-28 30 35 61 7a 84-8a 8c 8e-a1 a3-ce d1 d5-d6 dc f0-f1 f5-f6
    05  d2
    06  6a
    0e  3f
    1e  80-85 9e a0-a1 b8-b9 bc-bd ca-cd e4-e5 f2-f3 f8-f9
    1f  00-15 18-1d 20-45 48-4d 50-57 59 5b 5d 5f-7d 80-b4 b6-c4 c6-d3 d6-db dd-ef f2-f4 f6-fe
    20  0b-0c 10 12-14 16 18-1a 1c-1e 20-22 26 30-32 35 39-3b 3d 40 44-46 70 74-79 80-89 a1 a4 a6 a9 ab-ac b1-b2 d7 dd
    21  02-03 0b 0d 0f-13 15-1e 20 22 24 26-27 2c 2e 30-33 35-38 41 90-9b 9e a0 a2-a3 ab-ae b0-b1 b6-b7 ba-c4 c6-d5 da-db dd
    22  00-08 0b 0f-14 17-1a 1d-1e 20-2b 2e 34-35 3c-3d 40-43 47-48 4a 4d-4f 51-53 56-57 5c 61 64-6c 6e-73 76-77 7a-83 86-8b 8e-9b 9d-a6 a8-af b2-b5 b8 ba-bc c0-c7 c9-d4 d6-db de-e1 e6-ed
    23  08-0b 22-23 29-2a 9b-ad b7
    24  22-23 c7-c8
    25  0c 10 14 18 71-72 a0-a1 aa b3-b5 b8-b9 bd-bf c2-c3 c6-c7 cb e6
    26  05 60-63 65-66 6a 6d-6f ad-ae
    27  13 1d 20 c2 e8-eb
    2a  00-06 5e 7d-7e 85-88 8b-8c 95-96 af-b0 b5-ba c5-c6
    2e  18 40
    e0  00-0b
    e1  32-33
    fb  00-04
    1d4 9c 9e-9f a2 a5-a6 a9-ac ae-b5
    1d5 38-39 3b-3e 40-44 46-47 4a-50 5c
    1f1 2f
    1f6 52
    1f7 c9


    ASCII, which is 00  20-7e , is contained. However, it does not contain ISO 8859-1, which is 00  20-7e a0-ff . This is because from your data it appears that your font does not contain U+00A0, the non-breaking space, which is also the only missing CP1252 character. As for MES-1, it does not contain 00a0, 2015, 215b, 215c, 215d, 215e.
  • Simon Cozens
    Simon Cozens Posts: 740
    Linus Romer said:
     I do not know a tool where font encoding coverages can be checked automatically
    I think PyFontaine is designed for this kind of thing.
  • Piotr Grochowski
    Piotr Grochowski Posts: 91
    Simon Cozens said:
    Linus Romer said:
     I do not know a tool where font encoding coverages can be checked automatically
    I think PyFontaine is designed for this kind of thing.
    That is an internal Google Fonts tool or something, and it does not seem useful to have a separate font reading library specifically for character set analysis, as one could use FreeType and get the Unicode values of every glyph index, then on the resulting array perform mathematical checks for whether this character set is a superset of another character set.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    edited October 2020
    @Piotr Grochowski Thanks for looking up the missing code points! I have added the missing slots and now ISO 8859-1, CP1252 and MES-1 are covered.
    By the way: For my more intense checks now, PyFontaine was not useful for me, I just needed a list of codes of these subsets, as you already pointed out:

    subset_iso8859_1 = list(range(0x20,0x7F)) + list(range(0xA0,0x100))
    subset_cp1252 = subset_iso8859_1 + [0x0152,0x0153,0x0160,0x0161,0x0178,
    0x017D,0x017E,0x0192,0x02C6,0x02DC,0x2013,0x2014,0x2018,0x2019,0x201A,
    0x201C,0x201D,0x201E,0x2020,0x2021,0x2022,0x2026,0x2030,0x2039,0x203A,
    0x20AC,0x2122]
    #...
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    I have been working on the ItalicCaption face. The \z is derived directly from Pierre Simon Fournier's specimen (Italique ancienne, p. 188):
    The darkness should now fit the roman style better:
    An example with mixed roman/italic math (the g will get an alternate for math later):
    Small specimen:

  • Craig Eliason
    Craig Eliason Posts: 1,436
    It's a lovely /z but is a bit exuberant in comparison to the pretty sober other italics. If you do keep it, it might need to be a little taller. 
    Perhaps italic /r could be narrower.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    edited October 2020
    @Craig Eliason I already feared the /z could be too exuberant... I have made now a more arid /z and have made the /r less wide. I think the /z now automatically look taller.
    While looking at my own examples I also was dissatisfied with the upright /g which is now less excentric. I have also added a math italic /g.

    This is how it looks in context:

  • Simon Cozens
    Simon Cozens Posts: 740
    It may be the effect of the tight f-u kerning, but in that context, the regular z looks to be tilting to the right to me.
  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    @Simon Cozens I think it is the effect of the tight f-u kerning, indeed. I have updated the f-u kerning and think the /z looks okay:
    Whereas a more to the left tilted looking /z would seem strange to me:

  • Linus Romer
    Linus Romer Posts: 186
    edited November 2020
    The italics are not proceeding fast... Some things that I have done since the last post:

    The ampersand was developped from an image by Pierre Simon Fournier (to the very left) to a spiro skeleton. The skeleton has then been optimized (rounder, less prominent t-bar). Then the skeleton has been expanded by an elliptic pen and the t-bar had to be rotated. Finally (to the very right), the ampersand has been adjusted by hand:

    The section sign (§) was nice, but I made a new one (to the left) with a more traditional design (the old one to the right is available as alternative):

    The ligatures needed quite some time (some ligatures like ẞ, œ, æ are still not optimal), because the spacing between the ligature components was quite difficult for me:

    So here is an extended specimen of the italic caption face: (Have I mentioned, that italic digits are by far more difficult to draw than regular digits?)

  • Christian Thalmann
    Christian Thalmann Posts: 1,983
    The bottom right quadrant of /f_f/ looks off to me, as if the two f's had different slants.
    I'd be curious to see those /Germandbls/! :grimace:

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