1.5 stories g'

Ofir Shavit

I came up with this g' while working on a new typeface (and another one). It is an hybridisation of two and one stories g'.
Do you know any? What do you think about it?

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

http://typedrawers.com/discussion/comment/30108/#Comment_30108
(But continue here, of course.)

Arthur Reinders Folmer

I've seen this in logo's, Aigo has something like this in use. (using Kabel as was posted in the other thread)

For your example: it's not really clear for me why you would choose this shape over a single our double story, since the start of the loop clutters the shape, not making it best of both worlds. I think it's worthwhile to look into a more defined loop beginning, especially if you intend for it to be used at smaller sizes. (the examples are quite large).

That way you'll get plenty of personalty, I'm sure!

Ofir Shavit

Rudolf Koch have made several typefaces with this kind of g', very interesting.

Maxim Zhukov

Hrant H. Papazian said:

I call this [alternate] the Van Koch g.

I am not sure this form is an alternate. And who is Van Koch? Do you mean Rudolf Koch? In fact, these, or similar, forms are common to many Art-Nouveau typefaces, e.g. Belwe-Antiqua, Bernhard-Antiqua, Schelter-Antiqua, Souvenir (ATF and ITC), Hobo, and very probably, more.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

{Threading}
@Maxim Zhukov http://typedrawers.com/discussion/comment/30114/#Comment_30114

Ofir Shavit

@Arthur Reinders Folmer What do you call "the start of the loop"?

I got to this g' form, while trying to make it echo with these letters in a cursive Hebrew typeface I have designed, making it multilingual now. (BTW it is slanted but not an Italic style, but the main style of the typeface).

Here it is at 18pt...

Simon Cozens

It rather reminds me of the Interstate g, one of the rare occasions where my emotional reaction overpowers my trust in the ability of professional type designers.

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Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

FWIW, I don't mind Highway Gothic's "g" structure (if not its finish).

Arthur Reinders Folmer

@Ofir Shavit With the start of the loop I mean where you would normally find the link of the /g. Especially in the roman it could use a bit more overshoot to the left.

Cheers for the smaller example, I like the link!

Craig Eliason

My design Backflip (formerly Flipper) employs a "1.5-story" /g/—in an almost horizontal-stress design, it cuts down the horizontal thick strokes that have to fit vertically from 4 to 3. 

I'm fond of it, but recognizing its novelty I've designed a one-story stylistic alternate.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

Lovely!

Ofir Shavit

@Arthur Reinders Folmer , ah, ok. I call it the "balcony" (1.5 stories plus balcony g' )
Thanks! it is still at early stage, didn't yet deal with overshooting at all. (see attached pdf)
Also keep on playing with the low crossbar f'.

BTW, this is all with Fontark and in Fontark at this stage. I can't explain how easier and faster it is to design and work with the skeleton and glyph-sync systems.




@Craig Eliason I love that looping g' formation.

James Puckett

I've always felt Koch’s designs felt too novel and stood out. But I love what Craig did there, it feels more chirographic than Koch’s designs.

John Hudson

@Craig Eliason  What's interesting to me in your Backflip illustration is how well this reads as a g in the heavier weight, while in the lighter weight — perhaps because it gets closer to a skeleton form than a mass form — what stands out to me is the 8-like nature of this form.

Craig Eliason

James Puckett said:

I've always felt Koch’s designs felt too novel and stood out. But I love what Craig did there, it feels more chirographic than Koch’s designs.

I think there was some chirographic inspiration: there's a descending s-shape hidden in there, which is similar to the way the /g/ in my name appears in my signature. 

Thomas Phinney

Your lowercase g needs optical compensation at the joins, like you do in other letters.

Craig Eliason

John Hudson said:

@Craig Eliason  What's interesting to me in your Backflip illustration is how well this reads as a g in the heavier weight, while in the lighter weight — perhaps because it gets closer to a skeleton form than a mass form — what stands out to me is the 8-like nature of this form.

I think a contributor to that effect is the way the right side of the bolder letter approximates the stem of a single-story /g/ more closely--i.e. you could draw a straight vertical line down its mass and stay in black the whole time, which is not the case with the regular weight. 

John Hudson

Yes, that's exactly it.

One of the things I've been looking at recently — in the context of Bengali conjuncts — is the way in which unorthodox treatments can approximate the pattern of more conventional shapes.

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

James Puckett said:

I've always felt Koch’s designs felt too novel and stood out. But I love what Craig did there, it feels more chirographic than Koch’s designs.

When I first suggested trying the Koch form to Nina for Ernestine, she balked... but eventually grew to love it! I don't think it stands out, and neither does it feel cramped in its descender.

My reason for liking Craig's form is its elegance; the conventional binocular "g" –especially when the bottom is closed– can be topologically too complex, almost like a logograph misplaced in an alphabetic system.

Craig Eliason said:
there's a descending s-shape hidden in there

In fact my own approach to making the binocular "g" belong more with the rest of the alphabet is making it harmonize with the "s" in its bottom.

Christian Thalmann

I never like Koch g's, but I'm going to make an exception for Craig's.

My favored solution for cramped descenders has been this one so far:

What would that be called? A sitting /g?

Ofir Shavit

Christian Thalmann said:

What would that be called? A sitting /g?

One story on column, plus a chimney

Craig Eliason

Christian Thalmann said:

What would that be called? A sitting /g?

On old Typophile threads I recall that style being called a Danish g. 

Florian Hardwig

Right, here’s one of them. See more such ‘g’s on Flickr.

Nick Shinn

I’ve never employed this configuration, but I have used something similar (the “disconnected tail”) in a number of typefaces—though not for a lack of space, but because its oddity seemed appropriate for exotic, playful and experimental designs.

• Eunoia
• Fontesque
• Morphica
• Merlin

Maxim Zhukov

À propos :

Ofir Shavit

@Hrant H. Papazian Looking at your Calouste Armenian font I have spotted this capital letter Co, which if I'm right is the equivalent for Latin G :



Was you inspired by Koch's g? Could Koch have been inspired by the Co for his g?

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

1: Calouste is by Miguel Sousa.
2: The Ց has no connection to the G. For one thing it sounds like the "ts" in "its".
3: I doubt Miguel made any connection.
4: The Koch theory is... interesting.  :-)

Ofir Shavit

1. Sorry for the mistake, thanks for the correction!
2. It's sound/function is different for sure, the lower case seems identical to lower case g' though.
3. Probably not. I'm not familiar with Armenian type, but it seems that "the balcony" is an essential part of the Ց', so he didn't have to look far for inspiration.
In this forum's typeface the Ց' is also rounded' I've seen a flatten version of it too.
4. More probable than the opposite : )

Hrant Հրանդ Փափազեան Papazian

Well both Latin and Armenian lowercase letters came from the writing-facilitation of uppercase, and those two caps are nothing alike. Also, Armenian scribes were more likely to be influenced by Greek than Latin. So I think this end-result is a coincidence.