Futura and Avant Garde

Daniele Lanza

Hello everyone,

I am new in this forum and it looks very interesting and a good way to learn from lovers/professional of this field.

In the company where I work, we use Futura font as the institutional font. Futura, that I love, is been the company font for ages, and now they decided to introduce the use of a further font, to be used in conjunction with Futura, this new font is going to be Avant Garde font, that I also like, nevertheless I personally think that using two fonts of the same class (geometric sans serif), is not a very wise choice...Can i have your opinions about it please?

thanks, 

Nick Shinn

The Futura clone with a large x-height would be more useful.

Can’t remember its name.

Stephen Coles

Nick is probably thinking of Futura Maxi (AKA PL Fute).

I think that's the right approach if you're looking for something more vertically compact and small-size legible than Futura, but in the same vein. But Futura Maxi is pretty extreme. Here are some more moderate options: Moskau Grotesk, Montreal, Fenomen, Volte.

That said, it makes little sense for us to judge your company’s choice without knowing how it will be used and what your brand goals are. And TypeDrawers isn't really the place for type selection advice. 

Daniele Lanza

Thanks for your replies, the font we are currently using is Futura std, in book, light and heavy styles.

The font they are going to add is ITC Avant Garde Gothic std book apparently.
I think the intention of the company is to recall the glorious times of the 80's where the company logo was based on the Avant Garde font.

My concern is just that when I wll need to use both the fonts in the same document, the differences between the two will be not recognisable enough, ending up looking as a sort of mistakes or oversight, if you know what I mean?

If the choice was using futura+Scala for example, or another more 'different' font, I would understand better the choice, it would be less misleading for me...but maybe I am wrong.

Thanks for your opinions.

Stephen Coles

Yes, contrast is a generally accepted priority when pairing fonts. So combining Futura and Avant Garde could be quite awkward. Is it necessary to keep Futura? How long has it been associated with the brand? Do you use it for long running text? What prompted the need for a secondary typeface?

Daniele Lanza

Unfortunately, they did not present any information about the choice of introducing a new font... we are talking about a fashion company and unluckily many times choices are just matter of personal tastes in this environment, this new creative director came and started changing things. I honestly believe he is not realising very well the consequences of adding that font, and I cannot see the utility of this choice, since Futura font is such a good font, I just can forecast a disrupting effect from a corporate communication perspective. They did not give us any guidelines so far, and I really hope they are going to supply a plan or a style-guide on how to incorporate this new entry.
I also use it for running long text, and since a while for I-pad documents as well.

Stephen Coles

You could start with demonstrating why Avant Garde is a poor choice for body copy which will affect the brand’s communication. Type with strict geometry, extreme proportions, very small apertures, and various uniform/indistinguishable letter shapes does not make a pleasant or effective reading experience.

Daniele Lanza

Thank you Stephen for your suggestions, very helpful.

Charlie Goodwin

I wonder if there was any consideration of the separation of roles two typefaces should have? In addition to the commentary elsewhere on this thread, I cannot help feeling the addition of Avant Garde comes from a love of the look rather than a consideration of the separate but compatible roles two faces should have when they work together, i.e. Face 1 for heads and subheads, face 2 for body copy.

This sounds like "I like Avant Garde" with no further considerations., but to approach reconsideration maybe showing those involved some other project's typographic manual with clearly defined roles for each typographic element?

By the way, hello...  My first post here. You people are amazing! 

Christian Thalmann

Stephen Coles said:

Here are some more moderate options: Moskau Grotesk, Montreal, Fenomen, Volte.

And let's not forget Quinoa.

While I'm not a fan of Avant Garde myself, I can see why people would like to use it in display settings. In text settings, though, it ought to be a crime even worse than Apple's use of skinny Helvetica for UI settings.