project Roarrr

Łukasz JózefŁukasz Józef Posts: 14
edited November 2016 in Type Design Critiques

Could you give me same advice for improvement of the letter structure and visual homogeneousness of the stem width? Here is bold version attached, all comments are welcome, Thank You


  • The stroke endings of the c and e don't match the s. Both look a bit forced so maybe us the s as the reference?
  • Łukasz JózefŁukasz Józef Posts: 14
    edited November 2016
    Right, there are too many variants, maybe lower ending of (perpendicular to the main acute angle) will work for c&e

  • Building on George's comment I would also consider flattening the stroke endings on /vwxy/ which seem to be a bit too lively and are better suited on occasional letters only like /k/. The /a/ could also do with a notch at the top to differentiate the shape from /b/ and /d/. Check out similar fonts like Brandon Grotesque for some inspiration.
  • Hello,
    here at Futura's ces test word all terminals are quite a different. I've tried to make mine ces more unified than before. Maybe now e finial is to swashy when compared to rigid gyj and full circle o?

    Chris, I've got an opposite view. vwxy seems ok to me (especially those letters with flat base line) and I consider as to lively one. Shapes of and b&are different because being of ascenders, so I can't find the reason to alter them further.

  • Re terminals don't need to be all the same angle. The angle of how they cut the stroke is more important. Check the angles of the terminal lines to the curves on both sides. Some are blunt, some are sharp. 

    In the Futura example, the e and s are cut perpendicular to the stroke. The c is cut vertically because in German, the c is always followed by a h or k. And Futura was created in Germany. So the c is an exception. 
  • good explanation, thank You. I'll return here with uppercase completed.
  • Adam JagoszAdam Jagosz Posts: 689
    edited March 2017
    @Chris Drabsch
    Is /k an occasional letter? Perhaps in the Western European languages, otherwise, not so much. 

    @Łukasz Józef
    Was making /p a mirror image of /q and /b of /d your intention? Honestly, /p and /q do not look great together, I get the impression they are looking up at something between them we cannot see. All of /a /b /d /q /p are copycats of each other with no respect for pen logic,
    while /g is incongruent with them. It is build from a full circle like /c, while /a /b /d /q /p transition to horizontal. Make sure that's what you wished.

    I like the new /e. (But aren't the sides a tad too pointy? I mean, I would try making them more full). I think the obliquely cut /v/w/x/y resonate nicely with the indented tops of /m/n/p/q.
    I think what Chris meant by adding a 'notch' was to make /a look like the /g at the top. Doing so would make it more congruent with the above letters.

    Show us the regular/thin if you have one! (You mentioned "bold version" in the original post, do you have another?)
  • Łukasz JózefŁukasz Józef Posts: 14
    edited April 2017
    Hello, I would like to share with you upper&lowercase specimen. Feel free to draw with a red pen on it. Right now the bold is the only master.

    @ Adam Jagosz - I wasn't logged in recently to find Your notes. I'll check how typographers are making p-q, b-d pairs sexy. There is no pen logic here, as you said, because letters are rather plotted with calipers and set square. Letter g lower part of the bowl isn't horizontal to let more air under the bowl. Descender of g is also curved because horizontal looks to mechanical for me (but looks wrong now with Q - Qg pair) I like flat top of a with no g-like notch - it makes bigger visual difference between italic style a and o shape. Letter e is so far the top pain-maker, I've got no idea how to make it full and keep enought of inner light at bold version.  thank you and please check the new specimen
  • Ori Ben-DorOri Ben-Dor Posts: 383
    First thing that caught my eye was /M/. It doesn't look right. I'd make the outer strokes more vertical (and the inner ones less so, don't change the width at the base level).
  • I'm not sure about the M actually. I think it has some character :) Main problem is that it's too dark. Try thinning the middle two strokes by enlarging the top triangle of whitespace. Same thing (but reversed) in W and w. Actually v V A are all too dark at the apex. 

    Bowls of b and q look odd but this has been mentioned before. CDGKN are too narrow. The style of the s and S doesn't quite fit. It needs to take on the jolly spirit of the rest. The middle bar in E looks too thick and extends too far to the right.

    I think I like the bowl of g better than the others because it is curved on both the top and bottom. I would do the same for all the other bowls so that the 'a' for example, would become vertically symmetrical (visually, not necessarily mathematically). It fits better with the overall geometric feel.

    It looks like you have been kerning already, which is fine to learn from, but a bit counterproductive since you will have to redo the kerning when you've perfected all the glyphs.

    Keep it up!
  • To me the only form that doesn't fit in is the S/s. I would caution against sanitizing this too much.
  • Craig EliasonCraig Eliason Posts: 1,398
    I would consider making the stroke width of the caps (/M/W/ excepted) a tiny bit heavier (or conversely lighten the lowercase). 
  • Łukasz JózefŁukasz Józef Posts: 14
    edited April 2017
    Thank you all for helping me.
    All comments seems clear. I am only not sure about the way s\S changes should follow. Jasper de Waard said that “it needs to take on the jolly spirit of the rest” or it can be rather more geometrical to fit - maybe with parallel lines segment in the middle part of the spine?
    Do you find it important that flat top of works with z, which has no 'notch' or bowl and can't otherwise match any other lettershape? (now it's a-z-t/f  flat top similarity at
    x-height line)    \no,no its only quick kerning for a specimen display\
  • I would make the "s" vertically asymmetrical (probably with a flatter top than bottom).
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