Commissioned Retail Font: questions/seeking advice

Brian Dove · March 30

Hey y'all,

First, if there is an existing thread on this topic, feel free to point me in that direction, but I couldn't find anything that helped with the exact scenario I'm curious about.

I've been contacted by someone interested in commissioning a typeface that they will use for their brand as well as sell on a few different platforms. Their budget is fairly low ($3-5k, scope is 7-8 weights with matching italics) so they are pitching this as a sort of "retail font collab" project (i.e. I get paid some $ for making the typeface, and also get some sort of royalty split and/or distribution rights). This is not a type foundry, but they do have one other typeface they distribute on a few platforms (another brand font, so I'd imagine it was a similarly structured project).

We haven't discussed details about rights, distribution, or royalties yet so I am here to see if anyone else has tackled a similar project. Curious about your thoughts on what royalty share and/or distribution rights seems reasonable for that budget, and any other advice on structuring this kind of project.

Thanks in advance!

Thomas Phinney · March 31

With that many weights and italics, I kind of imagine that you would be designing it using variable font tech (regardless of how it is shipped), with maybe three masters on the weight axis.

Do you have a solid definition of language coverage and typographic features, such that you can get a reasonable count of the glyph set?

So, they want to commission it for their own use, and retail it as well, eh? Generally, the price seems extremely low. But maybe it only has like 200 glyphs per weight so it is not as bad as it sounds. Still... ouch. I mean, if they wanna commission something that meets their needs, I would expect you would be talking a big multiple of that amount of money.

One thing you did not mention is… who actually owns it? At this price (or even 3× this price!), you should own it, and they get a license for their branding usage, and a non-exclusive license for retail distribution, with them taking no more than 50% of the retail.

Some previous related discussions and such:
https://www.thomasphinney.com/2024/06/custom-designed-typeface-cost/
https://typedrawers.com/discussion/5309/pricing-a-limited-font
https://www.leinstertype.com/articles/how-to-price-a-custom-typeface

John Hudson · March 31

That budget is very low. Unless the character set were extremely limited—in which case the retail value is also diminished—, I wouldn’t consider this remotely feasible.

Every font project involves work and rights. The work budget must cover the work, and any income sharing agreement to pay you royalties is related to the rights, not to the work. The rights are what you grant or transfer to the client and what they in turn license to customers. The work is time and labour, and you shouldn’t be taking on any work that isn’t properly compensated for the time and labour involved. You have some idea of how much money you need to live in the circumstances of where and how you live, and you have some idea of how much time the work will take you. That is the basis for determining a realistic budget for doing the work. If you are not earning enough to live on at least for the amount of time it takes you to do the work, you are effectively paying the client for the privilege of working for them. Don’t do that.

Brian Dove · March 31

@Thomas Phinney @John Hudson thanks, yeah I am definitely aware that the budget is extremely low for a custom typeface, which is why the ownership and royalty side of things will be crucial to me deciding if this feels worth it.

At this price (or even 3× this price!), you should own it, and they get a license for their branding usage, and a non-exclusive license for retail distribution, with them taking no more than 50% of the retail.

This is roughly what my gut was telling me too, @Thomas Phinney. Feels like the only way this would feel worthwhile to me. If it's something I own the rights to and fits well in my own library, it could possibly be worth it in my particular situation (I have a full time job outside of type, I'm aware the budget doesn't remotely cover the labor for something of this scope).

Thank you both for your thoughts!

James Montalbano · March 31

@Thomas Phinney @John Hudson have both offered excellent advice. My advice would be to"Run Away, Run Away". I cannot imagine future retail sales getting you close to what such a large project would be worth.

Brian Dove · March 31

@James Montalbano haha, thank you. Yeah I suppose that was really my main question—I'm aware that the budget is ludicrously low for custom type, but would it be worth it with ownership and distribution rights. Sounds like the answer is probably no!

Nick Shinn · March 31

Add a zero and consider a time-sensitive licence.
If you offer your client two (or more) options, they can choose between, say, a higher cost and full exclusivity, and a lower cost with full rights to resell accruing to you after a few years.

Thomas Phinney · March 31

Fundamentally, I would expect a commissioned gig from somebody with your background, that is done to their requirements that they would own or have temporary exclusivity, to pay something like 10 times what they are offering. Just as a ballpark.

So then you have to ask yourself if the likelihood of this paying off in terms of retail sales and your ownership and own sales... makes up for that. Also, is their art direction something you actively want as a positive, or is it a negative? Are you excited for the partnership aspects?

Still, yeah, not exciting.

Johannes Neumeier · April 2

Nick Shinn said:

Add a zero and consider a time-sensitive licence.
If you offer your client two (or more) options, they can choose between, say, a higher cost and full exclusivity, and a lower cost with full rights to resell accruing to you after a few years.

My comment exactly. The budget is a magnitude too small, regardless of retail projections.

I don't blame buyers, either, because there's a lot of this "36 days of type", "you can draw a typeface in a day", vibe going around, and it's near impossible for even most graphic designers to gauge the scope and quality of what they wish for.

At a minimum you are looking at 4 masters, and let's just generously say, only à 200 glyphs, that's 800 glyphs and a coherent total design, iterations, metrics, engineering. $5k / 800: you are getting paid about one fancy coffee per glyph. Or, if you say you want to earn $100 hourly, you'd need to draw approx 15 glyphs per hour. Don't even think about drawing two Medium masters

Since they are not a type foundry actively promoting and distributing (my guess) I wouldn't bet much on the added retail value of the collaboration. They are just another middle man taking another cut. You can still license a bespoke version to them for their client, and retail entirely yourself.

Brian Dove · April 3

Thanks for the feedback everyone, definitely going to pass on this. Having never considered a project like this, I wasn't sure if the retail side of things could at least partially make up for the poor budget which is primarily why I posted this. But I'm going to pass on this and just use that time to make my own type! Cheers.

Typedesigner · April 5

I fully agree with Thomas Phinney that the prices you mentioned are too low, considering the number of working hours involved and the transfer of usage rights.

I’ve also put together an overview of key considerations in type design for custom and corporate fonts on my website. I don’t publish pricing there, but the insights into the process might be interesting to you.

https://typedesigner.de/corporate-font-design/

Commissioned Retail Font: questions/seeking advice

Comments

Categories