Rules while designing Italics

Eryk Kosinski · January 16

Are there any rules while adding italics to my typeface apart from 11.31 angle rule?

John Hudson · January 16

11.31° is not a ‘rule’. It is an example of an angle that will avoid rounding glitches when using a slant function to shift from vertical to italic angle.

Italic angle historically is idiomatic, often reflecting the conventional angle of cursive writing contemporaneous with the typefaces. So, for example, 18th and 19th Century italic type styles are more slanted than 15th and 16th Century styles (as well as reflecting the stroke modulation patterns of different writing tools).

So when considering what angle to adopt for your italic, you should first consider whether there is an angle is idiomatic for your style of type, then whether there are reasons you might want to diverge from thaty idiom, and only then whether a particular angle will be technically easier to work with.

Also note that nothing says you need to start from your upright and use a slant function as a furst step. That’s a convenience, not a design methodology.

Enrico Sogari · January 16

@John Hudson Best answer ever.

Nick Shinn · January 16

Image: https://us.v-cdn.net/5019405/uploads/editor/io/58rfbr1s01wc.png

In recent work, I discovered that the italic angle of the lower case of my Scotch Modern (a facsimile revival of a mid-19th century design) was the same as the angle of the right-leaning diagonals of the roman, 20°.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the designer of the typeface had that in mind, so that mixed roman and italic settings exhibited a consequent harmony—or “just because”!
The italic lower case was also much wider than previous genres of type, so that it resembles the roman width—which is of course true for the capitals—another harmonization.
Different notions of harmony and contrast: Above, Scotch Modern; Below, Palatino.

Cristóbal Henestrosa · January 18

Relevant:

https://www.niggli.ch/en/produkt/italic/

This too:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjx2rjk3OWDAxUAOEQIHXe2AcEQFnoECBYQAQ&url=https://gaultney.org/jvgtype/italics/designing-italics/designing_italics_gaultney.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2feRrlmLJtNR1CEojEt_in&opi=89978449

Craig Eliason · January 18

Nick Shinn said:

In recent work, I discovered that the italic angle of the lower case of my Scotch Modern (a facsimile revival of a mid-19th century design) was the same as the angle of the right-leaning diagonals of the roman, 20°.

I've wondered whether the "overleaning" of diagonal letters I see in old fonts like Caslon's italics was motivated to avoid such coincidence with the verticals of the roman.

Nick Shinn · January 18

I've wondered whether the "overleaning" of diagonal letters I see in old fonts like Caslon's italics was motivated to avoid such coincidence with the verticals of the roman.

If you’re referring to capital A, V and W, I’d say that aligning their thick strokes with those of H etc. is more for consistency in all-cap settings. If those letters are just slanted by the same amount as other capitals, they look “neither one thing nor the other,” i.e. a bit random, in all cap settings; we are used to that, but perhaps they thought it looked messy, in Caslon’s day.

And speaking of Caslon, his famous specimens show A B C D etc., which look very nice with the thick stroke of A aligned with that of B.

John Hudson · January 18

If you’re referring to capital A, V and W, I’d say that aligning their thick strokes with those of H etc. is more for consistency in all-cap settings. If those letters are just slanted by the same amount as other capitals, they look “neither one thing nor the other,” i.e. a bit random, in all cap settings

But the oversloped letters produce big whitespace gaps in all-caps settings. I think they’re better suited to standard mixed-case use at the beginning of words, and would even consider replacing them with variant forms in all-caps to preserve balanced spacing.

Nick Shinn · January 19

But the oversloped letters produce big whitespace gaps in all-caps settings. I think they’re better suited to standard mixed-case use at the beginning of words

That creates horrrendous gaps, for V and W, when followed by x-height vowels.

In all-cap settings, there is always the option to letter space and adjust spacing balance accordingly.

But yes, over-sloped A italic at the start of a word is very attractive.

C.Fransen · January 19

John Hudson said:

If you’re referring to capital A, V and W, I’d say that aligning their thick strokes with those of H etc. is more for consistency in all-cap settings. If those letters are just slanted by the same amount as other capitals, they look “neither one thing nor the other,” i.e. a bit random, in all cap settings
But the oversloped letters produce big whitespace gaps in all-caps settings. I think they’re better suited to standard mixed-case use at the beginning of words, and would even consider replacing them with variant forms in all-caps to preserve balanced spacing.

Never heard of 'oversloped letters' before. I always used 'overhanging'. Thanks.

Is the use of 'overhang' maybe incorrect? (sorry, for getting a bit off topic here)

Thomas Phinney · January 19

Both terms have meaning, and they are not the same thing.

An “A” can potentially be oversloped without yet having overhang (depending on the italic angle of the font and the angles in the upright A).

“Oversloped” means “sloped at more of an angle than you would expect from the upright glyph and the italic angle.”

“Overhanging” just has to do with having upper elements that stick out. This can even create a negative sidebearing, sticking out beyond its origin or advance width (not sure if this is part of the required definition). If you consider it part of the definition, it arguably implies a glyph that has advance width, to stick out past available space.

So an upright font that is not sloped at all can have an overhanging glyph, for example a lowercase “f” overhangs to the right (in almost all fonts by the liberal definition, or in many by the stricter definition).

An oversloped font may have overhang for letters such as V and A, but not necessarily, depending on the angles in the upright versions of those letters, the total angle in the oversloped letters, and which overslope definition you use.

Carl Crossgrove · January 21

Short answer: No.
Look at the function of Italics (and Bold, and other family variants) in deciding what kind of role Italic plays. Sometimes the Italic style is the only way that emphasis is likely to be made or visible to the user (reader) of a text. Also investigate (by looking) just what emphasis, difference or changed state does the Italic (or bold or…) actually convey? Many sloped uprights with mild slope and little visual adjustment, and no structural adjustments, are not visible as variants when printed or displayed at small sizes. So if you are providing a family variant, it should at the very least LOOK DIFFERENT from the upright/roman/base style. What will achieve this?

C.Fransen · January 22

Thank you @Thomas Phinney and @Carl Crossgrove. Very interesting.

Claudio Piccinini · January 23

Nick Shinn said:

In recent work, I discovered that the italic angle of the lower case of my Scotch Modern (a facsimile revival of a mid-19th century design) was the same as the angle of the right-leaning diagonals of the roman, 20°.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the designer of the typeface had that in mind, so that mixed roman and italic settings exhibited a consequent harmony—or “just because”!

I always try to do this kind of things. :-)

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