Should I upgrade Glyphs Mini?

I'm torn. Why should I pay 250 dollars just to smooth kinks in Glyphs? Is there any application that runs independently to Glyphs and can smooth kinks on its own? Even with you, I just can't snap and the kink is fixed, and that is time-consuming and tedious. I'm getting stressed out. Please help me, even cake can't fix it.


  • What do you mean by "smooth kinks"?
  • Make it so the curve is smooth, not like a slightly rounded diamond. It can also mean too sharp of a bend. Also I could add bad curves. They can have one level of curvature, then just go into a sharper curve. Fit Curve is good, but not good enough.
  • It looks to me like I should always trace a sketch; I'm better off on paper. Thank you for an incredible insight!
    --i am a perfectionist and i will not go for less than perfect, so no kinks even in paper--
  • Philip, can you post a screenshot of the kinks?
  • Philip JacksonPhilip Jackson Posts: 38
    edited January 2015
    Can't preserve curve for this one. I can fix it; it's just time-consuming. Resorting to paper. 
  • I’m still not sure what you mean with kinks.
    Can you make a bigger clipping? And in outline mode? And maybe a "bad" and a "correct" example?
  • Maybe you should use more units per M ? Like 2,000 instead of 1,000.
  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,105
    "all-day, and all-of the night"
  • The one in the top left is great, the top right is kinked.
    The one on the bottom:
    Bottom left and top right curves inconsistent; the top right the most extreme case, and the bottom right is a basic practical example. Check out the /J/ in FF Yoga Sans for another example. Also, what is it with LeMo/Frank?
  • George ThomasGeorge Thomas Posts: 451
    edited January 2015
    Fit Curve is good, but not good enough.

    Then don't use Fit Curve. It's merely an aid, so you cannot expect it to be perfect. Draw them manually. It is quicker and easier.

  • I'm alive and kinking, thank you.
  • The path on the right is perfectly valid depending on what you are trying to achieve.
  • Philip JacksonPhilip Jackson Posts: 38
    edited January 2015
    *ahem* Yes, I know, Adrien. In Yoga Sans, the /J/ is like that. 
    I ht knkng.
    Whoops, that was kinked.
    Apparently everyone loves a partially-on topic comment. (Cough LeMo Cough Frank)
  • I don't see whats wrong with fit curve. Use the compact mode or the shortcuts opt+ctrl+1 to 8. Set the lower limit to 56%, select all and hit opt+ctrl+1.

    (The in expanded mode, you need to press the buttons that are on a diagonal from the lower left to the upper right.)
  • Philip JacksonPhilip Jackson Posts: 38
    edited January 2015
    philip, not phillip
    i'm a cheapskate though LeMo
    and this is off the charts for my budget
    250 dollars though
    at that rate i'd be selling a letter for $1
    I don't know why pure curves are 56% and not 50% so that's why...
    look at my real site

  • Draw a cirkle with a diameter of 200 units in illustrator. Then measure the length of the handles. They will be ~56.6 units long. I actually meant the say 57% because that looks rounder to me. So this minimal value produces a close approximation of a ellipse. For most curves you need a more cornery curve so you can try button 2 or 3. After you figured out what curvature you need in a certain context, you just need to press opt+ctrl+ tha number and get the same curvature regardless of the proportions of the segments.
  • Ah!
    Here you go... a guided guide to kinks.

  • Mark SimonsonMark Simonson Posts: 1,009
    edited January 2015
    Philip, I'm not sure how you think it's supposed to work, but fiddling with Bézier handles all day is what type design is like. If there were a button that would automatically make curves look right, we'd all be out of jobs.

    Here is a pretty realistic demo of what it's like to make fonts:

  • It looks to me like I should always trace a sketch; I'm better off on paper. Thank you for an incredible insight! --i am a perfectionist and i will not go for less than perfect, so no kinks even in paper--

    Maybe you should try DTL IkarusMaster, if your drawings are perfect.
  • @LeMo aka Frank E Blokland Jessica Hische, a type designer? :)
  • Jacques, I am a real sketcher. I use guidelines I never quite erase.
    Mark, I will do it on paper, because fiddling on one letter for about 2-4 days is quite too much for me. After I perfect the letters, I will bang my head on my wall because I need to work on 10+ letters for 2 days each. Then I will work on it until I'm on my deathbed. God-perfection, if you will.
    Georg, there is no expanded mode in Glyphs mini? Also, can you really provide an in-depth view of Glyphs mini vs. Glyphs, i.e:
    -Only on App Store; updates slow
    -No expanded view of Fit Curve feature
    -Limited characters
  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,105
    Type design is a patient person's sport.  We are all perfectionists.  We all get frustrated.  You just have to learn your tools and love the time you spend doing it.  Going from Glyphs Mini to Glyphs or any other software wont change that.  Approach it like a child.  Play with it.
  • One of the members of my Thesis committee made me remove all mentions of the word "perfect" in my Masters thesis. Even in direct quotes from other articles. His rational, "Only the Divine is perfect". Lots of Luck
  • “…because fiddling on one letter for about 2-4 days is quite too much for me.”

    Type design wouldn’t be a specialized skill if it didn’t take specialized skills. The only way to make it easier is to put in the time.
  • The only way to make it easier is to put in the time. 

    Or invent technology that makes it easier, as FontLab are busy doing

  • Chris DrabschChris Drabsch Posts: 76
    edited January 2015
    I'm hardly an expert on this but I ran a quick experiment in Glyphs (Pro) using the .glyphs file that Philip submitted. In his file was the oddly distorted circle in the screenshot below.

    By setting the Fit Curve parameter to 57% on the lefthand side as per Georg's observations, and selecting all the nodes in the curve, I then clicked the leftmost button on the Fit Curve pallette and this fixed the problem:

    In my eye that seems to have fixed the issue - Though it's still not a perfect circle, Fit Curve would probably never correct that and you would need to re-draw one with the circle tool. But it's a good starting point to easily clean up the curves now the handles are all the same length.

    I guess it also completely depends on what shapes you're trying to draw, and there are many options available in Glyphs to go about the work the way you think is best. For instance, I never begin by drawing solid shapes like many would - I always draw line work, then Offset the curves to make them thick outline shapes, and then I might apply rounded corners at the caps to easily smooth off the edges of letter strokes. Then again that practice wouldn't work for a Garamond-like serif font, so my method of working would have to change completely based on the requirements.

    You might also benefit from Yanone's SpeedPunk tool to help you visualise the "speed" of your curves and identify problem areas: You would most likely need to upgrade to Glyphs Pro for that - which I would highly recommend anyway, as it will pay for itself if you are making a career out of type.

    Also isn't a "kink" actually a twist or distortion in a straight line? Like what happens when you don't roll up the garden hose properly and it snags itself in a nice tight loop the next time you go to use it? Like this:

  • Re. my comment. If I was unclear, it was a tongue-in-cheek question to @LeMo : Is Jessica Hische considered a real “type designer”? Where should we draw the line?
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