Typedesign and Indonesia

Dusan JelesijevicDusan Jelesijevic Posts: 32
edited July 4 in Type Business
Sincerely I hope that this question wouldn't offend anyone, especially the Serbia I'm coming from isn't famous for anything similar, but I noticed a big boom of Indonesian releases on MyFonts.  There are more then 50 foundries from Indonesia, releasing a tons of script families almost every day.

Since I'm not following so often news from Asian markets, I was wondering what made Indonesia (at least to me) all of sudden country who's having this number of type designers? 

Are there maybe any newly formed Universities, conferences, workshops etc that brought this popularity for type design?

Thanks.
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  • Vasil StanevVasil Stanev Posts: 361
    edited July 4
    I have worked remotely for an Indonesean t-shirt shop (they claimed to be Japanese, but less than 1% of jobs were Japanese-themed)

    Indonesia is one of the few countries outside the Anglosphere that uses the Basic Latin set, which means a big market. Also, it is the 4th most populous country in the world, having surpassed the Russian federation.

    This Indonesean boom surprises me, but, in retrospect and considering the above, the boom is understandable. If Islam or internal conflicts like the East Timor one does not mess the country up, as is the rule throughout most of history, it will be a considerable powerhouse. (I have had to hand trace anime characters with qurans and traditional Muslim attire... it's somewhere on my hard drive).

    The Indonesean people seem to be very proud and a considerable XIXth century literature in their language exists. As if all this is not advantage enough, Indonesian is a register of Malay, which makes it understandable to even more people. The straits of Mallaca are the place where a good portion of the world trade shipping goes through, which is obviously hugely important both economically and politically for other mercantile nations.
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    edited July 5
    Vasil Stanev said:
    If Islam or internal conflicts like the East Timor one does not mess the country up, as is the rule throughout most of history, it will be a considerable powerhouse. (I have had to hand trace anime characters with qurans and traditional Muslim attire... it's somewhere on my hard drive).
    As happened to Turkey as well?!
    https://typedrawers.com/discussion/comment/38193

    Absolutely true! The Indonesian/Malaysian/Turkish scripts have been transformed into Latin after being written for centuries in Arabic (Quranic) script that is still being used and called Arab Jawi or Pegon as shown in the attached picture

    and elaborated here http://nonosoft.jifisa.net/

    Still exchanging Crosswords? https://t.me/FlowerCrosswords/10
    Why not exchange Flowers? https://t.me/FonJawi/23


    Happy exploring through Telegram https://telegram.org with Flowers
  • Hrant H. PapazianHrant H. Papazian Posts: 1,516
    The Indonesian/Malaysian/Turkish scripts have been transformed into Latin after being written for centuries in Arabic
    A damn shame in both cases.
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    Hrant H. Papazian said:
    A damn shame in both cases.
    @ In both cases or many more Arabic/Quranic-based scripts like Sindhi, Saraiki, Kazakh, Uyghur, Punjabi, Khowar (Chitrali), , Balochi, Brahui, Kashmiri (Koshur), Kirghiz, Ozbek, Turkmen, Gawri (Kalami) too?!
  • Hrant H. PapazianHrant H. Papazian Posts: 1,516
    It could make sense in some cases. I'm just not aware of any.
  • Vasil StanevVasil Stanev Posts: 361
    edited July 6
    Aziz, I like how you bypassed all the good information in my post and went straight to the thing you feel the need to be offended by. Ain't gonna debate you if most Islamic states throughout history are failed or not, everybody can check the facts for themselves.Suffice is to say that Turkey is our southern neighbour and things there are far from rosy, I have enough people to tell me how it goes there in the provinces. I pointed internal strife as the obvious main reason (check Indonesian demographics, I will not be bothered to elaboarte), but people hear what they want to hear.

     I have spent a good deal of time and resourses researching most of the topics I comment on, so I will retract further opinions for obvious reasons.

    So far (myself included) I see guessing and other things, but no actual facts as to why this boom is occuring. Perhaps there are Indonesean designers on the board?
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    edited July 6
    Ain't gonna debate you if most Islamic states throughout history are failed or not, everybody can check the facts for themselves.
    Hope you scrutinize what happened throughout history and what is happening today not bypassing how the crooks did play and still playing their role in:
    1. fighting Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon Him, His Household & His sincere followers)?
    2. misguiding people by misinterpreting some verses of the Glorious Quran?
    3. changing Arabic/Quranic-based scripts into Latin?, and
    4. creating & supporting terrorism in Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Palestine and elsewhere?
    Perhaps there are Indonesean designers on the board?
    @ Well, here is two Indonesian Type Designers:
    1. https://typedrawers.com/profile/2675/Gumpita Rahayu
    2. https://typedrawers.com/profile/1600/Aditya Bayu
    And more here:
    http://luc.devroye.org/indonesia.html
    Hope to hear from one of them soon here as well as there:
    https://typedrawers.com/discussion/3089/arabic-design-contest#late

  • Vasil StanevVasil Stanev Posts: 361
    I have moved our little chat on PM to keep the thread on-topic.
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    edited July 6
    I have moved our little chat on PM to keep the thread on-topic.
    Thank you for not going off-topic.
  • John SavardJohn Savard Posts: 412
    edited July 9
    Ain't gonna debate you if most Islamic states throughout history are failed or not, everybody can check the facts for themselves.Suffice is to say that Turkey is our southern neighbour and things there are far from rosy,

    Aside from not wanting to go off-topic... even if I might agree with taking a jaundiced view of much of the Islamic world, I don't see any connection between that and the merits of the Arabic script versus the Latin script.
    The Latin script, being made up of disconnected letters without positional changes in form, is much simpler to deal with, as well as being highly legible. Are these advantages worth giving up cultural diversity?
    There are elements of culture that are subject to legitimate criticism, but there is also the "folkloric" aspect of culture; different peoples speak different languages, eat different foods, wear different clothes, and so on, all of which is so nonthreatening that politicians of all stripes can gush over it even if they would recoil in horror, legitimately or not, from any real diversity in things like basic philosophy of life or ethical views.
    Of course, there is a larger political context, in which one might suspect the motives of the Turkish government if it seeks to make communication with the Arab world easier, and communication with Europe more difficult. That a fait accompli would have to be reversed, bothering the Turks to learn to read and write all over again (if that is indeed the case, it may not be) is another matter.
    But I still would class the script used for a language as belonging to the folkloric portion of cultural diversity, the innocent uniqueness every national group has, and therefore not something to be tampered with without a very good reason, as doing so is hurtful to the people of that group.
  • Khaled HosnyKhaled Hosny Posts: 258
    I don't want to go off-topic and spout colonialist non-sense, but if Christianity does not mess Europe/Amirica up, as is the rule throughout most of history, it will be a considerable powerhouse. Ain't gonna debate if most Christian states throughout history are failed or not, everybody can check the facts for themselves. Did I say I don't want to go off-topic?

  • Hrant H. PapazianHrant H. Papazian Posts: 1,516
    Me, I'm just worried about the big modern-day religion that doesn't admit it is one...
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    edited July 10
    John Savard said:

    The Latin script, being made up of disconnected letters without positional changes in form, is much simpler to deal with, as well as being highly legible. Are these advantages worth giving up cultural diversity?
    Well! Tell me which is not only simpler but also more encouraging?

    Adding tails to disconnected letters to make them cursive or changing tails of Cursive letters, without changing their letter-heads, to make them more attractive?

    Comparing the two scripts:
    Latin letters = 34 stand-alone shapes = 26 (A-Z) + 8 (a+b+d+e+g+h+q+r) not taking the differences in the other 18.
    Quranic/Arabic-based letters - Dots = only (19) sweet and dancing shapes. https://www.sleeplessinkl.com/2010/08/25/tearing-my-hair-out-over-jawi

    That's right: Unlike Latin, Quranic/Arabic-based scripts love to go hand in hand and shoulder to shoulder as elaborated in the attached files.

    So, were those advantages worth changing cultural diversity?
    2. Why were the Quranic/Arabic-based scripts replaced with Latin?
    3. How do the crooks justify changing cultural diversity?

    Hope my posts are more illuminating than confusing https://t.me/R2LChangers
  • John SavardJohn Savard Posts: 412
    edited July 11
    So, were those advantages worth changing cultural diversity?
    I am firmly opposed to the persecution and mistreatment of minorities by national governments, and this includes Muslim minorities.
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    edited July 11
    I am firmly opposed to the persecution and mistreatment of minorities by national governments, and this includes Muslim minorities.
    Are Muslims in Indonesia/Malaysia and Brunei minorities or majorities?!
  • John SavardJohn Savard Posts: 412
    I am firmly opposed to the persecution and mistreatment of minorities by national governments, and this includes Muslim minorities.
    Are Muslims in Indonesia/Malaysia and Brunei minorities or majorities?!
    The majority, but I was referring to persecution of Muslims in Thailand, to which the article you linked to referred. Unless I quoted a link other than the one I followed.
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    edited July 12
    The majority, but I was referring to persecution of Muslims in Thailand, to which the article you linked to referred. Unless I quoted a link other than the one I followed.
    That's why, to keep things on-topic, I have reminded you with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_state in which the 3rd paragraph reads:

    Today, although Indonesia has an overwhelming Muslim majority, it is not an Islamic state, but constitutionally a secular state whose government officially recognizes six formal religions

    Is not that contrary to what Allah (God) emphasizes in the Glorious Quran:

    1. [Respectively in verses 5:44 + 5:45 + 5:47]. Those who do not judge by what Allah has sent down, it is they who are the faithless, wrongdoers, and transgressors.

    2. [In verse (48:29)]: Muhammad, the Apostle of Allah, and those who are with him are hard against the faithless and merciful amongst themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in worship], seeking Allah's grace and [His] pleasure. Their mark is [visible] on their faces, from the effect of prostration. Such is their description in the Torah and their description in the Evangel. Like a tillage that sends out its shoots and builds them up, and they grow stout and settle on their stalks, impressing the sowers, so that He may enrage the faithless by them. Allah has promised those of them who have faith and do righteous deeds forgiveness and a great reward.

    Hope, by now, All have realized the crooks role in creating/changing ungodly systems (Communism and Capitalism) & governments to act like the blades of scissors against Islam/Muslims and Quranic/Arabic-based scripts.
  • AzizMostafaAzizMostafa Posts: 56
    edited July 12
    A reminder to keep things on-topic, this is a forum for the discussion of type and lettering, not the criticism of religion. 
    Many Thanks with Flowers though this reminder was supposed to be published after the very first reply by @Vasil Stanev . Or that how democracy works?!
  • John SavardJohn Savard Posts: 412

    Today, although Indonesia has an overwhelming Muslim majority, it is not an Islamic state, but constitutionally a secular state whose government officially recognizes six formal religions

    Is not that contrary to what Allah (God) emphasizes in the Glorious Quran:

    Are you serious? Surely that should be contrary to what God is alleged to have emphasized in the Quran. (The contents of the Quran are not in dispute; the claim to it being of divine origin is.)

    Yes, some people believe that Islam is the truth. Other people follow Judaism, other people follow Christianity, other people follow Buddhism.

    Objectively and rationally, the only permissible, legitimate and just course of action is to ensure the absolute and total equality of all human beings, whatever their faith. Thus, governments should be forbidden to enact any law which has, as its object, making any one church the one which is somehow more recognized by the government, even as it is written in the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States.

    Thus, I oppose attempts to prevent Muslims from wearing hijabs, or writing their language as they wish, but naturally I expect Muslims, like Jews and Christians, to fully respect the rights of persons of other faiths.
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