Diversifying TypeDrawers

13567

Comments

  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,154
    I expect them to admit to their privilege

    I understand and agree with most of what you say.  I must interject one clarification.  All men have NOT been privileged. I  have received none of the "goodies" that the privileged men [and there sure are some, think Trump Roman] have received.  The only thing I have ever received in my life that was due to my gender was an offer that I could not refuse from our country--an all expenses paid trip to Vietnam in 1967-1968.  The "privileged" few white males who sent us there got to stay safe at home while the rest of us were getting shot at or having our minds destroyed by the true horror of man at his worst.  Go look at how many homeless and mentally ill men got that way courtesy of one war or another.  The privileged of Our country have thrown them all in the trash and ignored them throughout time.  Other than having an occasional parade on Memorial day, nothing is done to help them by those who sent them.  The only ones that help them are the poor bastards [men and women] with compassion for what was done to them.  The most help have come from the poorest and least privileged of our society.  Widows and children of dead veterans do more than there fare share.  What has Dick Cheney done?
    I do promise to keep doing what I have always done, support everyone equally and stand up for the underprivileged.  I would be more than happy to do what I can for women in the type industry who have experienced poor treatment.  Hopefully, we can get some actual examples to act on if the women come forward and tell their story.
  • Reconnecting after two weeks of holiday, I was somewhat surprised by this thread.

    When I was working as a graphic designer and now as type designer, I encountered some very interesting female designers, thinkers, illustrators, clients etc. To be honest, it never occured to me that they would have encountered the problems as described here or in others blogs. Not because I was being blind for it, but I felt like we had respect for each others being, skills and experiences.

    I think this is an important discussion, because it will open our eyes and give us some insight on other people's perspective and experience, thus broaden our view.
  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,154
    edited August 2015
    @Thomas.  I grew up a poor white kid in a mixed race and ethnicity inner-city neighborhood so that might explain my personal experience.  You are free to "not buy it" but you have not lived my life nor I yours or the person you spoke of.  All that I ask is that we quit generalizing so much.  For instance, most Black men probably don't fit your model of privileged men, either.  We have to get away from the stereo type that "Men do this or that" and assume we have lived all of their lives.  I readily admit that I can't possibly know about what Women face today, but I will bet you that there is a broad spectrum of difference between them.  Michelle Bachmann as opposed to the ladies who cleaned our hotel rooms at TypeCon.

    The past is the past--rather than lament our culture's failings on things past and not related to the current state of affairs in typography in particular, what can we do about the situation in the type world today?  This is something we can fix if we focus on the current problems and fix them before they also become part of the past.  Can we start addressing today's issues by hearing from those who experience gender and race related issues that pertain to the type business in particular?
  • Nick ShinnNick Shinn Posts: 1,435
    edited August 2015
    …she was married to the genius, plus she drew some typefaces, too. 

    It was nice of Akira Kobayashi to deliver a short eulogy for Hermann Zapf at Typecon last week, but I was surprised he didn’t identify the woman in the photos with him. He may have assumed we all knew it was his wife, or forgotten to name her (it was an emotional moment for him). 
  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,154
    Perhaps Akira assumed that an audience of type geeks would surely know of her?
  • Nick ShinnNick Shinn Posts: 1,435
    Was it OK for me to call out Akira?
    I sometimes think I should just never say anything, least of all my opinions.
  • Michael ClarkMichael Clark Posts: 138
    edited August 2015
    OMG, never have I seen so many negative things and lies cast upon someone's statement. I did an article on Gudrun… retouched the artwork she sent me with her permission because, she said, "I know I can trust you Michael!" I was merely saying that she ACHIEVED without ballyhoo! Simple enough for you people? Evidently not.

  • Michael ClarkMichael Clark Posts: 138
    edited August 2015
    You know, the funny thing is I never thought of any of this as being "not diverse." I have plodded along with both male and female friends with no thought as to calligraphy/lettering/font design as being divisive or chauvinistic. At least my female counterparts never brought it up and we were very honest. We always enjoyed a good conversation and the only time it got contentious was when egos (both sexes) got the best of the group. But that was quickly tamped down. We are "blue collar workers dealing with letters instead of steel, or iron, or aluminum." Coding does not make you a superhero!

    The funny thing is I just got an e-mail from RIT to participate in a book honoring Hermann Zapf. The piece I am submitting is more akin to the work Gudrun would have done!
  • James PuckettJames Puckett Posts: 1,655
    Perhaps Akira assumed that an audience of type geeks would surely know of her?

    Akira seems to speak as succinctly as possible. I think he’s just a quiet person.

  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,154
    Also, English is about his 4th language--wish I could say that.
  • There in lies the rub. I was brought up in the 50's in America. My father was an absolute antithesis to the times. EQUALITY across the boards. So say what you will, but I have also instilled this in my children (girls, and one boy) and they have been undaunted, AND achieved, by the cultural norms. So needless to say I am unimpressed by screaming from the rooftops by "victims." P.s. my wife is beyond quite accomplished despite her sex. Her deceased sister was a huge force in Washington DC.

  • Michael, I think it's wonderful you are raising your children to value equality. It's wonderful that they, along with the people you know personally, have achieved success. But I am genuinely curious: let's say some strange man gropes you at a conference and you don't like it. Would you not say anything about it, or do you think he should be disciplined in some way? 
  • Chris: Like Elizabeth, I never thought we were talking about the distant past. I still expect that you are using the word “privilege” in a narrower sense than some of us. But in any case, I am glad that you are interested to talk about the present and are willing to believe that various folks face assorted kinds of discrimination.

    Unlike you, I come from an upper-middle-class background (even if we were very poor when I was a kid), so I don't have as strong a gut reaction to the “privilege” label. But I wasn’t really comfortable with it until I did more reading.
  • Michael: Seems to me that the calligraphy/lettering end of things is more diverse than type design, fonts and typography.
  • It absolutely is Thomas. But it is fraught with the even worse "disability" ego/self absorption and the me, me, look at me problem. But I got into this as a result of the "examples" of Hermann and Gudrun as well as Fritz Poppl. The ladies that I know in the field (type) are very low profile and wonderfully talented. They, as I do, eschew the self promotion avenue. So I am sorry if I came off as ass… but I have to admit I loved all the troll/spam/abuse hits I got. Keeps it lively! And gives me something to worry about during my retirement years.

  • Michael ClarkMichael Clark Posts: 138
    edited August 2015
    Dyana, I am not a terrible looking man, but I got hit on in "Mid-Town" Kansas City constantly in my year down there. Only once did I smack one of the fellows. As to conference behavior that is totally unacceptable. You were not the only one aware of that ass's behavior, shame on those that let it pass… they are the worst offenders. Yes… scream loud and hard.

  • John HudsonJohn Hudson Posts: 1,659
     I'm currently writing a piece that will hopefully help clarify what privilege means.

    I look forward to reading that. I was struck when I first heard Utah Phillips on the subject* of privilege, especially because his own life and experiences are not what many people would have considered as indicative of privilege in terms of wealth, luxury or opportunity. Utah's class background and his experiences in the Korean war were much as Chris describes his own being.

    * 4:00 minutes into this recording, but the whole thing is worth listening to:

  • John… stunningly wonderful and provocative. When I started this journey I withdrew and relied on exemplars for several years. A couple of years in, I found people I could talk and relate to, the Zapfs and Julian Waters and Werner Schneider. That is as far as privilege ever got me… and that was pure "hutzpah" that I even reached out to them. Even now I am careful as to who I reach out to for myriad reasons. But the idea that study and talent and passion have driven me for more than 3 decades is astonishing when I think back on my life.
  • Michael: I'm glad we're on the same page. I'd argue about the subtler points of the issue, but others are doing that already, so let's just enjoy the moment for now. 
  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,154
    Fantastic, John!  I really hear what he is saying.
  • Chris LozosChris Lozos Posts: 1,154
    The only action I can take as an individual is individual action and encourage others to do the same. I have always done what I thought I could--that is not to say that it was enough.  What I do need to know is what do I do now? As I said before, I cannot change the past but would like to know how to change the future.  Feeling guilty for what others of my race and gender have done does not do a single thing to help make a solution. Rather than be told I am complicit because of my skin color and gender is not a solution and it actually sounds racist/sexist.  What are the things we horrid old white males can do as individuals to begin a solution?
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/dezcom/albums/72157635722976076

Sign In or Register to comment.